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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 4772801" data-attributes="member: 5890"><p>The wizard has ~68 hitpoints. The fighter has ~133 hitpoints. That carries over to how much they heal when they spend surges. All that adds up to mean that every point of damage that the foe does to the wizard effectively counts for twice as much as if he'd done it to the fighter, because it comes that much closer to downing a foe, and uses up that much more in terms of healing.</p><p></p><p>So, the monsters DPR adds 5 and then effectively doubles. That's a lot more than the 8.2 damage that he's taking back.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter using surges or not has little to no bearing on how much the leader heals: leader heals are restricted per encounter. The daily resource here is surges (with some powers being notable exceptions). If the fighter is ending on 8 surges while the rest of the party is on 0 to 2, then assuming each extra surge worth of damage he takes is equivalent to removing a surge worth of damage from another character (which isn't true: defender surges tend to be larger than those of others), the party could have gone another encounter before running out.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter's counterattack is usually only enough to make the decision between low-hp and high hp targets even, assuming close defenses. Once the defenses start to shift, you need to make up for that AS WELL.</p><p></p><p>As the fighter's damage dealing ability goes down, he not only becomes less effective at counterattacking: his value as a target goes down as well. So not only does the wizard have less hitpoints, but each hitpoint holds more value.</p><p></p><p>As a totally non-muddy example: we have two combatants. One has 5000 hitpoints and does 1 point of damage per attack. The other has 1 hitpoint and deals 5000 points of damage per attack. Which do you kill first to maximise your chances of winning?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Personally we and our DMs reveal defenses when you attack them. It just makes the game flow that much quicker.</p><p></p><p>Even if you don't do that though, defenses get pinned down pretty quickly. And if you're talking about large differences (ie - the sort that will result from prioritising defense on a fighter and giving him all the best defensive gear vs prioritising other roles) then is it really metagaming?</p><p></p><p>Usually it comes pretty close, but a good deal depends on how hard the fighter actually hits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 4772801, member: 5890"] The wizard has ~68 hitpoints. The fighter has ~133 hitpoints. That carries over to how much they heal when they spend surges. All that adds up to mean that every point of damage that the foe does to the wizard effectively counts for twice as much as if he'd done it to the fighter, because it comes that much closer to downing a foe, and uses up that much more in terms of healing. So, the monsters DPR adds 5 and then effectively doubles. That's a lot more than the 8.2 damage that he's taking back. The fighter using surges or not has little to no bearing on how much the leader heals: leader heals are restricted per encounter. The daily resource here is surges (with some powers being notable exceptions). If the fighter is ending on 8 surges while the rest of the party is on 0 to 2, then assuming each extra surge worth of damage he takes is equivalent to removing a surge worth of damage from another character (which isn't true: defender surges tend to be larger than those of others), the party could have gone another encounter before running out. The fighter's counterattack is usually only enough to make the decision between low-hp and high hp targets even, assuming close defenses. Once the defenses start to shift, you need to make up for that AS WELL. As the fighter's damage dealing ability goes down, he not only becomes less effective at counterattacking: his value as a target goes down as well. So not only does the wizard have less hitpoints, but each hitpoint holds more value. As a totally non-muddy example: we have two combatants. One has 5000 hitpoints and does 1 point of damage per attack. The other has 1 hitpoint and deals 5000 points of damage per attack. Which do you kill first to maximise your chances of winning? Personally we and our DMs reveal defenses when you attack them. It just makes the game flow that much quicker. Even if you don't do that though, defenses get pinned down pretty quickly. And if you're talking about large differences (ie - the sort that will result from prioritising defense on a fighter and giving him all the best defensive gear vs prioritising other roles) then is it really metagaming? Usually it comes pretty close, but a good deal depends on how hard the fighter actually hits. [/QUOTE]
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