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<blockquote data-quote="webrunner" data-source="post: 4777575" data-attributes="member: 63727"><p>The language here is extremely different, actually.</p><p></p><p></p><p>First, you need to use the current version of Combat Challenge, which reads like this:</p><p>"</p><p>In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target is marked, it takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls if its attack doesn’t include you as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.</p><p>In addition, you gain the Combat Challenge power.</p><p>"</p><p></p><p></p><p>Which pretty much separates the Combat Challenge marking ability and the immediate reaction, which is now a class power. In order for the monster to know about the Combat Challenge interrupt, it would have to be an exception to the monster knowledge rule: the rule is that they know what they've been hit with. The monster has not yet been hit with the Combat Challenge interrupt power. They would have to also know what they <strong>potentially can be hit with</strong> to see the Combat Challenge interrupt.</p><p></p><p>As for between the two, make particular note to these parts:</p><p></p><p>"If your marked target makes an attack..."</p><p></p><p>vs</p><p></p><p>"Whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack..."</p><p></p><p>The Swordmage ability specifically refers to 'target', namely the target of the aegis power. You have to actually aegis a target in order for it to trigger, so they know about it. The Combat Challenge power does not, as the fighter <em>doesn't even have to use the first combat challenge ability to mark a monster in order to get the combat challenge interrupt</em>. If the fighter multiclasses warden or has a bard on his power, he can mark people without using combat challenge, but still gains an attack. The rules make no distinction between marking methods, so there is no rule difference.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The claims you are making require exceptions to the rules. Ours do not.</p><p></p><p>A monster knows when an effect has been imposed on it, as per the rules. For combat challenge, no effect has been imposed on the monster except "you are marked". for Aegis, it isn't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="webrunner, post: 4777575, member: 63727"] The language here is extremely different, actually. First, you need to use the current version of Combat Challenge, which reads like this: " In combat, it’s dangerous to ignore a fighter. Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target. The mark lasts until the end of your next turn. While a target is marked, it takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls if its attack doesn’t include you as a target. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place. In addition, you gain the Combat Challenge power. " Which pretty much separates the Combat Challenge marking ability and the immediate reaction, which is now a class power. In order for the monster to know about the Combat Challenge interrupt, it would have to be an exception to the monster knowledge rule: the rule is that they know what they've been hit with. The monster has not yet been hit with the Combat Challenge interrupt power. They would have to also know what they [b]potentially can be hit with[/b] to see the Combat Challenge interrupt. As for between the two, make particular note to these parts: "If your marked target makes an attack..." vs "Whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack..." The Swordmage ability specifically refers to 'target', namely the target of the aegis power. You have to actually aegis a target in order for it to trigger, so they know about it. The Combat Challenge power does not, as the fighter [i]doesn't even have to use the first combat challenge ability to mark a monster in order to get the combat challenge interrupt[/i]. If the fighter multiclasses warden or has a bard on his power, he can mark people without using combat challenge, but still gains an attack. The rules make no distinction between marking methods, so there is no rule difference. The claims you are making require exceptions to the rules. Ours do not. A monster knows when an effect has been imposed on it, as per the rules. For combat challenge, no effect has been imposed on the monster except "you are marked". for Aegis, it isn't. [/QUOTE]
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