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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goumindong" data-source="post: 4778139" data-attributes="member: 70874">Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Also, your second reply contradicts this reply. Damaging 3 targets less may not be as strong as damaging 1 target more.Sigh, except that is not what you're saying because you're advocating a position where its more advantageous to split fire. You're advocating this position because the situation where it is advantageous to not split fire in, is one that has a very hard time actually existing. It requires the wizard be sitting around in melee all the time. Even if you do get this to occur, it still runs into the flat out marginal DPR problem.The fighter is probably be going to be marking the primary target, everyone is going to be hitting the primary target as much as possible. When the enemy defects it drops his DPR faster than it does the enemies. We know this, you proved it.When his DPR drops, the other side gets even more powerful since their incoming DPR has no been reduced, but their outgoing the same. There are very few healing powers that come without flat amounts or bonuses. For the most part, its second winds, which people are loathe to use for a number of very good reasons[std action, means they can't be brought back up with a heal check]Only if they can be the current focus target. If they can't be the current focus target for some reason, many of which exist, then the best focus is going to be the fighter. Because there are always going to be fewer reasons that enemies can not attack the fighter than they cannot attack the wizard[Range, cover, line of sight, other allies getting in the way, etc etc etc]. No, but its one of the methods he uses in doing his job. I mean, you're going to tell me that taking up a spot on the battlefield is not valuable? Because each and every melee player should be concentrating on taking up spots so that enemies cannot reach the ranged characters while hitting the primary target. As a side note, fighters are great at taking up spots on the battlefield and they are designed pretty aggressively towards doing that.What? You're saying that the enemies should attack different players instead of focusing fire? Seriously? And you think this will make them cause more damage on any one target?Lanchester's square law is an easy representation and proof, if simple.First, wooo, who caresSecond, wooo, who caresThird, wooo, who cares, what matters is that they're ahead of wizards, what were comparing against.Finally: We are comparing against a wizard with a low AC, because wizards have the abysmally low AC required to make your comparison even get close to working. Of course, wizards don't win over fighters until 3 targets are available. Well, for a few reasons. One of which is that the fighter also has AoE capabilities if you choose to go down that route(which do more DPR than the wizards due to throwing higher dice*), and the other is that higher damage single target abilities are stronger than lower damage AE abilities unless everyone has those AoE abilities. That is because the higher damage single target abilities kill the primary target and the AoE abilities do not take that primary target DPR out of the game as fast.But lets compare to the real king of DPR, the melee ranger. They will have an AC of, at the very least at level 8 [14+4+3+1]= 22. . Realistically they're going to have an AC of either 14+4+3+2+1 = 24[base+dex+hide+enhancement+TWD], or [14+7+2+1]=24[base+chain+enhancement+TWD] a full 3 higher than our wizard[or more, this assumed a 16 base in dex rather than an 18 which is reasonable due to dex bonused races]. Hell, they might even have more if they've invested in scale[not a bad decision on the whole].Clealy this makes your case all the more weaker.No, i read the entire thing. The wizard has an abysmally low AC because he has done nothing to boost it and has an under leveled armor. At level 8 you can have up to a +3 armor, but +2 is going to be pretty standard. You're going to have spent a feat or two on AC, either with a shield, or with leather. All of these boost your AC. If you're wearing +2 leather your AC on that wizard goes to 24. If you're wearing +2 leather with a staff wizard or wielding a shield your AC goes to 25, hide bumps it up to 26. You are likely to have shield or expedious retreat, powers that get you out of tough situations. I have 2 feats boosting the challenge specifically, 2 feats boosting attacks in general, and one feat boosting AC[16 str, 18 wisdom base]. If i wanted to, i could add shield push which would entirely negate attacks unless the enemy had reach or was being flanked and shield the fallen[+2 all defenses and saves for adjacent allies when they're bloodied, helpless or unconscious] if i really wanted to focus on it. In the end, I will be able to spend a maximum of roughly 2 feats over the fighters career to boosting AC. ALL the rest go to boosting offense, or the defense of others. This will hold true for most fighters, as they advance they're going to get damage on a miss from their hammer, or bigger crits with their axes, or they're going to be able to combine shield push with spear push[push 2 on a successful CC which will negate a LOT of attacks when it hits], etc etc etc.How many times do i have to explain to you that the hobgoblin will not always be able to attack the wizard when it is much more likely that everyone will be able to attack the fighter? The wizard can move out of the way and the fighter can very reasonably ensure that the hobgoblin cannot follow it. Either with the simple mark or OA, or with powers that slow, hinder, and prevent the melee enemies from getting to the other enemies. That is what either forces the enemies to split fire[artillery on the wizard, melee on the fighter/other melee], or to focus fire on the fighter.[the wizard will also be making sure that the hobgoblin cannot close when it attacks it with debilitating effects such as daze, immobilize, prone, difficult terrain, etc]*And because they hit more[Sweeping blow, AoE +1/2 str mod to attack w/axe, 1[W]+str. +weapon talent and/or +3 proficiency bonus] and because they are likely to hit more targets[come and get it, pulls enemies within a close burst 3 in before making the attack at 1[W]+str, nearly guaranteeing more enemies are getting hit], and because wizards have to be cognizant of hitting their allies.</blockquote>

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