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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elvinis75" data-source="post: 925581" data-attributes="member: 4379">Re: Re: caliban"No gun was being held to their heads.   Going with less than optimal armor is not "completely unnaceptable" unless your a crybaby. "Somehow losing a 2 levels on every other hit makes a player a cry baby huh?  Glad your not my DM."They chose not to prepare.  They set themselves up for the situation. They had a choice, even before the fight occured, and chose poorly. I'm afraid it IS the point.   The hard choice only came about after they flubbed the easy choices. "So the price of a really bad choice earns you the rest of the session in the not playing penalty box.  What is the going price for a bad choice? 45 minutes?Doesn't sound like a fun way to run a campaign.  I'm not saying that is the situation here but if this was completely acceptable then it would likely happen again in the campaign."They weren't forced.   They could have started acting like heroes at any time. "There is a fine line between acting heroic and taking stupid chances.  4d6 six times for the people that always take the approach that the DM isn't going to put us up against anything that we can't handle, without our armor or spells ...etc."It's a two-way street.   Having a fun game is just as much the responsibility of the players as it is the DM.   Being the DM does not mean catering to the players whenever they make mistakes. "Correct but it does mean keeping the ones that want to play the game playing it.  The DM can't make the player play, however he can set it up such that the players are forced to deal with situation or not.  In this case the players played the game and got screwed by a rule that uses RT in a game where most other things don't(thus a good number of people talking about the timeline)"This is untrue.  As pointed out by a few other posters, they had ample magical defenses they could have used in place of armor, if they had worked as a group. Really?   Why not?   It can protect against the level drain, and damage the vampire who hit you.Sounds like an excellent defense to me.   Actually makes getting hit almost desirable. "Please go back and read the prayer.  Is doesn't guarentee the protection.  Hits can and likely will penetrate the barrier and either way the damage goes through.  Any hit that goes through is a double punch to the nut in that you lose two levels and take the damage.  If the number of vampires is large then the characters, IMHO they did the smart thing, though I agree that the Paladin is not supposed to play smart.  He has his code to live up to.  Further there are references to turning.  The turning isn't  going to make them dusty unless they are low level.  Thus is just forces them to run away unless you are lucky enough to get them into a corner"The fact of the matter is that PC's will not always be fighting under optimal conditions.   Those that insist on doing so, deserve to sit out a fight or two until they learn how to deal with it. Sometimes wizards have to do without their spells, and sometimes fighters have to deal without their armor. "True.  Those who insist on always fighting regardless of the disadvantage die frequently and are annoying to most normal PCs.  It takes time to keep reintroducting characters.  I played in a campaign where a guy died 6 times and the DM said that after this next one your done.  So a players has to see that not every fight is one that should be fought at a disadvantage.  Sometimes retreating and fighting another day is part of the game.  If the battle was set up for 7 players why weren't the other 4 getting there arses handed to them?It is also worth noting here that this isn't some little fight its a major battle and going to into one of those without full gear isn't usually smart.  Time is a big deal.  Someone sits for 1-20 minutes once in a while not a big deal.  Someone sits for 20-60 minutes once not a big deal.  Someone sits for 60 minutes once in a while or the whole session once is big deal and should be avoided.  Sitting around isn't much fun and thus as a DM this time should be kept to a minimum.  Agreed?</blockquote>

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