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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdavis" data-source="post: 926042" data-attributes="member: 8704">Re: Re: Re: calibanLets see there were 1 14th level wizard, 1 11th level, 2 9th level, 4 7th level, 1 6th and 13 vampire spawn (from  fusangite's discription on page 2 of thread). What is the 4d6 six times?These are wizard, vampires and (mostly) vampire spawn, they get wizard attack bonuses on their slam attacks, which is to say pretty pathetic (the 14th level vampire would have a base +7/+2, none of the others would even have multiple attacks). This is a given for the characters as these are reoccuring enemies, they should know what they are. These are vampires that are wizards, they are going to avoid physical combat just like wizards do, you seem to be saying that they will automatically use only the slam attack every round and that they will all charge the Players, why would they do something that stupid?    Most of them are vampire spawn, the role is 1D20 + caster level vs DC 11 + creature HD, the role to beat for vampire spawn for a 12 level cleric is a 3, the role to beat for the highest level vampire is only a 13. Those are pretty good odds, especially when you look at it that they have really crappy to hit bonuses to start with. As far as turning them goes, a 12 level cleric would destroy the spawn's on the turn attempt. Not to mention if they are turned then they are not attacking the players or continuing with their plan so driving them off is a victory in this situation. The big point is that the clerics were better prepared for this fight than the ones who actually went to fight, even without the Plate Mail. Fighting undead is one of the cleric's strong points, they still had their spells and their turning ability, why would they rush into hand to hand combat anyway, they would be more useful in this situation standing back and using thier powers than defaulting to fighters and charging in head on. They had the advantage on this field even without their armor. This is you putting your personal game into this situation, it just doesn't apply to every situation. Those who is insist on fighting immediatly instead of letting their opponets prepare for them do have a advantage in many situations. You seem to be under the impression that this is a common event in fusangite's campaign but I don't see where he said this happens that often, heck what I see is that he said was that they use every flimsy excuse they can come up with to say that they have the armor on regardless of what is going on. This was a one time event not something that happens every time. Sometimes you have to fight at below optimum level, it is a given that you will not be prepared 100% of the time, this fight seems to be the exception in the campaign not the rule. If he said that they never get to wear their armor then it would be a different arguement but this was a one time thing.  Once again this seems to be a rare event in his campaign, nowhere was it said that players sit around all the time. It happened once and he was concerned enough that he posted here about it, this is obviously a very rare occurance in his game. Nobody said they sat out the whole session, heck was how long they sat out even mentioned? Three character's missed one fight in the adventure, one of them didn't seem to mind and one admitted he was wrong the very same night, the only issue I saw was that one player actually disagreed witht he call (and he had a history of disagreeing with stuff). In the end they all agreed with his call, they all stated they would be better prepared next time, his campaign wasn't ruined, apparently no character's died and it all worked out fine in the end.</blockquote>

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