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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elvinis75" data-source="post: 930541" data-attributes="member: 4379">“ Wait.  So it's OK to hose the players over an hour, but not over four minutes?”No you’re missing my point.4 minutes or 40 rounds isn’t a long time.  600 rounds is.  Waiting 600 rounds is out of the question.  Played out better they should have sent one person to see and had the others help the others with their armor and planned a little.  That cuts it down to roughly 10 rounds that they were going to be waiting.  IMHO the 4 that decided to fight an encounter planned out for 7 players should have got their butts handed to them.It’s not ok to hose players out of playing period.I have said it in the past.  They were (PCs and DM) both wrong.The players should never split up like that.  The DM never should pose a set of choices that leads only to trusting that the DM will not put them up against something that they can’t handle OrSit out as players as their characters get ready.This style of play is both leading the characters and cuddling them.i.e. Play the game my way and trust that you will be fine or sit out.“ Isn't it un-fun to go into a combat without your defensive spells?  You might get hurt!  You might lose!Heck, as a rogue player, isn't it un-fun for me to fight undead and golems and similar things that I can't use my Improved Critical and Sneak Attack on?  I'm going into combat with my abilities crippled!Wizards are going to find it un-fun to fight golems, too, since their abilities would be crippled - so I guess we should just throw them out entirely, right? ”This isn’t the point.  Whether these characters can use their abilities or not isn’t the question at hand.  It might very well be less fun fighting without all of your abilities being effective however I think that is where some of the fun comes in.  Though as I started off staying this isn’t the point.  What is more important to this is whether or not sitting out is fun.  It is certainly more fun playing than not.  However a player shouldn’t have to decide between him/herself having fun and the logical character choices.  Logically it can be proven that there high level vampires wisards that were waiting for the characters.  They had high enough spells to bring into the battle things like dire lions, tigers, and bears oh my!  These creatures don’t care if the clerics have NEP spells on them or not.  You ever see how fast a dire bear goes through a character with AC 14?  The players thought that it was better to put on there armor.  I agree with the decision that they made at the time and with the hindsight that it would have been better to go in knowing how it was going to turn out.“And then of course you've got the guy who whines as soon as he takes a hit.  It must be un-fun for him to take damage, so it's important to make sure he's invulnerable to everything.  Right?So...why are the heavy armor people supposed to get special treatment again? ”No special treatment is needed.  4 players leave to fight a battle that they shouldn’t be able to win.  They get routed and hurt in the process and return to the clerics to be healed and they launch a second wave.  That how I would have handled it.  No special treatment for the people in or out of combat.Sometimes combats don’t go the way that a DM planned and he is forced to dynamic and think on his feet.  He usually doesn’t have to bend or break the rules just think creatively.</blockquote>

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