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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 2187527" data-attributes="member: 7211">Comparing similar arrays composed of different point buy values:-36 pts-16 +315 +214 +213 +112 +111  0+9 totalWizard 16 Int, 15 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 13 Wis/Cha, 12 Wis/Cha, 11 StrFighter 16 Str, 15 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 13 Wis/Int, 12 Wis/Int, 11 ChaRogue 16 Dex, 15 Str/Con, 14 Str/Con, 13 Int/Wis, 12 Int/Wis, 11 ChaMonk 16 Dex/Wis, 15 Dex/Wis, 14 Con, 13 Str, 12 Int, 11 Cha-32 pts-16 +314 +214 +212 +112 +110  0+9 totalWizard 16 Int, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 12 Wis/Cha, 12 Wis/Cha, 10 StrFighter 16 Str, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 12 Wis/Int, 12 Wis/Int, 10 ChaRogue 16 Dex, 14 Str/Con, 14 Str/Con, 12 Int/Wis, 12 Int/Wis, 10 ChaMonk 16 Dex/Wis, 14 Dex/Wis, 14 Con, 12 Str, 12 Int, 11 Cha-28 pts-16 +314 +214 +212 +110  0 8 -1+7 totalWizard 16 Int, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 12 Wis/Cha, 10 Wis/Cha, 8 StrFighter 16 Str, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 12 Wis/Int, 10 Wis/Int, 8 ChaRogue 16 Dex, 14 Str/Con, 14 Str/Con, 12 Int/Wis, 10 Int/Wis, 8 ChaMonk 16 Dex/Wis, 14 Dex/Wis, 14 Con, 12 Str, 10 Int, 8 Cha-25 pts-16 +314 +214 +210  09  -18  -1+5 totalWizard 16 Int, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 10 Wis/Cha, 9 Wis/Cha, 8 StrFighter 16 Str, 14 Dex/Con, 14 Dex/Con, 10 Wis/Int, 9 Wis/Int, 8 ChaRogue 16 Dex, 14 Str/Con, 14 Str/Con, 10 Int/Wis, 9 Int/Wis, 8 ChaMonk 16 Dex/Wis, 14 Dex/Wis, 14 Con, 10 Str, 9 Int, 8 Cha-22 pts- 16 +314 +212 +110  08  -18  -1+4 totalWizard 16 Int, 14 Dex/Con, 12 Dex/Con, 10 Wis/Cha, 8 Wis/Cha, 8 StrFighter 16 Str, 14 Con, 12 Dex, 10 Wis/Int, 8 Wis/Int, 8 ChaRogue 16 Dex, 14 Str/Con, 12 Str/Con, 10 Int/Wis, 8 Int/Wis, 8 ChaMonk 16 Dex/Wis, 14 Dex/Wis, 12 Con, 10 Str, 8 Int, 8 Cha   My argument is that in most of these cases, due to the nature of arrays (inherently weaker than Point Buy as there can be no versatility that PB implies), the only 'powers' that a class loses by decreasing the amount of points in their array is flexibility and roleplaying. The reason is because even with a 22 Point Buy these classes still have relatively high scores in their strengths, it is in their weaknesses (primarily Int, Wis, Cha) that they continually get lower and lower scores. While low scores do not inherently inhibit roleplaying, they do place constraints on roleplaying, or possibly force you into roles you don't want to play. The game comes down to people getting together and having fun; if its more fun to have some out-of-combat strengths, or a couple more skill points per level, then why not allow them? Keep in mind I'm not trying to justify raising the average campaign Point Buy, I am saying that if you're using arrays based on PB, making an expensive array will not necessarily result in overpowered characters. The only difference between the first 2 is that the 36 PB-based array has 3 odd scores which could be increased with the ability increases. However, given the nature of players trying to increase their highest stat (in all cases, the 16) this forces them to decide whether or not they want to increase something which will not result in a numerical adjustment at all, or invest in the future. I think the first array is slightly more powerful, however since it makes the choices harder both at character creation and every 4th level, I prefer it. If the wizard increases his Intellect then numerically the 36-pt array is equal to the 32-pt array excepting some feat requirements. All the arrays beyond the first don't have the luxury of having odd scores (except the 9 in the 25 Point Buy), they are trying to maintain pace with the more expensive arrays so the weaker scores become a little weaker at first, and then in the final you end up with 2 below-average abilities, and only 3 above-average ability scores. The class that comes out weakest in this analysis is, of course, the monk. He is reliant on 4 ability scores instead of 3 or less, therefore when his 4th score becomes average in the last 2 examples, you can tell he is going to have to shore up that weakness (the analysis persists if you prefer Str-based monks, they have 4 stats which demand reasonably above-average scores, neglecting any results in a weaker monk). Cleric could easily be included but would conclude the same way: they need Wis, Con, Str (high armor allows them to neglect Dex), and then Charisma, Intelligence, and Dex. While an average charisma and subpar Intelligence and Dex would hinder a cleric, he could still dish out strong spells, attack well, and absorb a decent amount of punishment between his armor and hp. He would have less skill points, less opportunity to turn undead, and slightly lower AC, Init, and reflex saves. Overall, what do you think of my assessment? Would you be more inclined to making stronger arrays in the future, or do you feel that my argument has some faults I do not address (please, post any feedback)? Technik</blockquote>

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