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Message: <blockquote data-quote="spinozajack" data-source="post: 6629685" data-attributes="member: 6794198">You are right, of course, D&D isn't all randomly generated. But rolling for stats isn't random. You still get to pick where you assign the values, then pick your race to boost them, then pick feats to boost them further, and finally within only a few levels will have an 18 or 20 in your main stat regardless of which generation method that you choose. It's only those who are virulently against dice rolling in stat creation, who I find have a misplaced rage against the element of randomness being present in the game, and it makes me wonder if they even understand they are playing a game with no fixed outcome, and that the surprise the dice give you when they are called for, is both fun and exciting, instead of a book. Of course you can play a game on rails, like there is only one path to success, and that's fine. But if you are going to play a game like that I believe a videogame achieves that kind of playstyle better. I'm just saying, think about why people who hate dice rolled stats think that way, their arguments, and ask yourself if those arguments can't be extended to any time the dice are rolled, or even every time. I think you'll find that the initial stats don't matter all that much considering players can usually choose to avoid combat if they are feeling the pain, or run away to heal up then return later. Really, the main difference between a few points of DPR or not is how many short rests or long rests or time or healing potions you need to spend. Then it's just nit picking. If the outcome of your campaign requires intra-party balance to be so strictly enforced, then surely you don't allow inferior feats or build choices either, right? There is a much greater difference in character ability due to optimization and player tactics than there is between an extra +1 or -1.And point buy is kind of a lie. If you hand pick your stats you are likely doing so to optimise, so the only reason to feel like rolling isn't fair is when someone rolls higher than someone else. That is just too bad. That happens in literally every single fight. Oh, I suck this fight, can't hit worth a d@mn. In 4th edition, the difference between my character who was optimized and 2-3 other PCs who were far less, was striking. I could hit all the time and they constantly felt useless. But then they kept ignoring my advice to retrain this or that feat. Why is that? They want to be suboptimal but still be optimal. They wanted their cake and have it too. They wanted to be as effective in combat without spending the time it took me to learn the rules and the build choices and know what options to pick, and it showed. In 5th edition, the difference between a well optimised character and someone who isn't isn't nearly as important, especially with bounded accuracy and the difficulty in finding +ses to hit or AC.But back to your point about the story not being 100% random, I agree. But combat and combat-related stats, and skill-related stats, should be. Or at least allow the players to choose. If not, I do wonder what kind of fairness will actually be enforced. Will a character who dual wields daggers be told they should be dual wielding shortswords instead? Because they're more optimal. How about, fake this feat instead of this one? Where does this quest for "fairness" end? I think you'll find, in the end, "fairness" is an illusion, that the dice make a mockery of, and the players making poor character selection choices and tactical choices and spell selection choices do too.</blockquote>

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