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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6630674" data-attributes="member: 22779">My point is, if die rolled PC's resulted in average, standard point buy value stats, then 4 randomly chosen PC's on your PC tree should result in about (given a bit of flinch factor, say +/-3) an aggregate of +20 for stat bonuses.  But, I'll bet that they don't.  I'll bet that if you picked 4 random PC's from your group's tree, nearly every time it will result in +25 or higher, because die rolled characters almost always result in higher values.And it's funny you use the point of "improbably poorly".  A drop of 2 on every stat is "improbably poorly"?  Really?  None of those rolls are particularly poor or high to be honest.  They're pretty much what you SHOULD be seeing with a random die roll.  A standard array is actually a bit high for 4d6 drop 1.  Yet, a character that is slightly below average on each roll is now "improbably poor"?The irony here is that you complain about me not seeing the obvious when you ignored/misread my line about a +1 array group (ie every stat is +1 bonus higher than the standard array, meaning that the high stat starts at 18 or 19 depending on racial bonus, a single +1 stat bump feat and you've got that 20).The other point is that the low stats are now a straight jacket.  I can only make certain characters - a moon druid, or a specific kind of wizard or take specific feats - if I want to be effective.  What if I take a halfling monk, because I want to play a halfing monk?  Or something that doesn't fit with your suggestions?  Am I still just as effective?And, again, this is all beside the point.  The issue is that the entire group if die rolled, will default to significantly higher bonuses, making the group as a whole considerably more powerful.  Sure, a single character with an extra +1 isn't going to change anything.  But, when the entire group, as a group, has pluses on virtually every stat over the baseline array, then you will get groups (and I really want to stress the fact that I'm talking about groups, not individual characters) with considerably more oomph than if you use point buy or standard array.</blockquote>

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