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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6630696" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Your math is wrong BTW. Point buy sets using variant humans will get you +7 plus a feat at first level, so you'd expect +28 for 4 point-buy PCs.Anyway, that's tangential to the point I was responding to, but I'll oblige by pulling the 3 sets of character stats I have on hand from 5th level characters the players made last week and left with me. These are player-created NPCs:15, 16, 10, 12, 10, 13 (Genasi): +7 including racial bonuses and one ASI.16, 10, 14, 14, 8, 16 (Tiefling): +9 including racial bonuses and one ASI.14, 12, 17, 12, 15, 13 (Aarakocra): +10 including racial bonuses and one ASI.For comparison, a standard array using a variant human at 5th level would get you +8 (18 14 14 12 10 8) plus a feat. The standard array is mathematically gimped relative to die rolling: an average die roll would get you +8.72 plus a feat at that level. These PCs are the tiniest fraction below average: total +26 but expected value is +26.12. (In reality though, total plusses matters much less than plusses in prime requisites.)Standard deviation on 4d6 drop lowest is 2.847 according to rumkin, so you'd have to roll 2.62 standard deviations under to get an array one less than standard, if I'm not messing up my statistics here. That ought to happen about one in 416 times. You're postulating a group where all four PCs roll one under standard, so that should happen one in 416^4 times, or in other words it should happen in one out of twenty-nine billion tables (29,948,379,136). I'd call that improbable, yes.Even if it were only a 20% chance of rolling one under, that would still be only 1 in 625 where everyone rolled substandard even if they only had one PC per player, which I don't. Having all my players roll in the bottom 20% for all their PCs is vanishingly improbable.So... when you say "three extra feats" relative to my Moon Druid, you don't actually mean that you have 20 Wisdom and four feats? You mean that you start with Wis 17 (+1 higher than standard array), have +1 Wisdom from being human and spend one ASI for a grand total of three feats (two greater than my Moon Druid)? Because if there really is a way to have three feats more and 20 Wisdom than the Mobile 20 Wis Moon Druid 12 I'm all ears. I think you just did the math wrong though and there is no such way.Eh, a halfling monk would be somewhat effective I guess due to halfling Lucky, especially at the kinds of things monks are good at (sneaking and scouting). It wouldn't be very good in combat compared to other possibilities--monks tend to be pretty MAD, and a monk can't really compete in combat with a same-stats fighter IMO unless he rolls substantially better than average: 17/17 looks like a monk, but 15/15 is pushing it and 13/13 is really marginal. You could find a way to make it work (using missile weapons or open hand flurry/Mobile) but you're kicking against the pricks here.You should probably argue with someone who disagrees with you on that point. I have several times on this thread acknowledged the truth of the point in bold. It's right there in the math--the standard array is slightly worse than the mathematical average for rolled stats. Point buy is intentionally gimped!I responded specifically to the mention of a low-stats array being "unplayable" under 3E rules--it's certainly not unplayable in 5E though!</blockquote>

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