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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Achan hiArusa" data-source="post: 4938594" data-attributes="member: 2597">I've heard of a theory floating around that the changes in 3rd Edition are based on the D&D Cyclopedia.  This fundamentally rests on the more regular ability score chart and the skill system.  Of course, this totally ignores the fact that Johnathan Tweet, co-author of Ars Magica, was involved in the creation of 3E.  And by statements made by Erik Mona, Jonathan Tweet was clearly in control of the whole process.  So let's look at this:Core Mechanic1st/2nd Edition:  HA!Cyclopedia:  HA! again (though being a simpler system there were still a smaller variety of rolls)Ars Magica:  Attribute + Ability + 1d10 (Simple roll, Stress, Quality, and Low rolls had their own complications)3rd Edition:  Ability Score Modifier + Skill (or BAB) + 1d20Conclusion:  3rd Edition shares more with Ars Magica in terms of core mechanic than any previous D&D edition.Ability Scores1st/2nd Edition:  Six ability scores ranging from 3-18, modifiers started at extreme scores (generally 15+ or 6-) and mostly ranged from -4 to +4 (with lots of exceptions)Cyclopedia:  Six ability scores from 3-18, modifiers were more spread out from -3 to +3 (3 = -3, 4-5 = -2, 6-8 = -1, 9-12 = 0, 13-15 = +1, 16-17 = +2, and 18 = +3)Ars Magica:  8 Characteristics that ranged from -5 to +5, no modifiers since the characteristics were directly the modifiers.3rd Edition:  6 Ability scores ranging from 1-20 (depending on ability modifiers) with ability modifiers from -5 to +5.  Every two ability points raises a modifier by one point.Conclusion:  Though on the surface the 3e system looks like the Cyclopedia version with the 1st Edition +4 and +5 as caps instead of +3, it more resembles the Ars Magica system with an ability score tacked in front.  In fact the True20 system looks exactly like the Ars Magica system since it eliminated the ability score and went with just modifiers.  The only difference being that the traditional six ability scores were used instead of the 8 Ars Magica characteristics.Skills1st/2nd Edition:  If used, used a secondary skill or proficiency system.  The chance of success on the proficiency system was your ability score plus modifiers.  Thief skills still used the percentile system.Cyclopedia:  The General skill system was almost the same as the 1st/2nd Edition proficiency system except there were no modifiers to the ability scores based on skills.Ars Magica:  Abilities ranged from +1 to +5 initially (except for Magic) and you used experience to raise them.  Magi started with their age in abilities and all other character started with twice their age in abilities.  3rd Edition:  Skills range from +1 to +4 initially and you had skill points based on your character class (and if human you got a +4 bonus).Conclusion:  The skill system from 3rd Edition is much closer to the Ars Magica system than the proficiency system of either 1st/2nd/Cyclopedia D&DAnd as a final parting shot:Beserk:  ...While Beserk you gain a +2 on Damage, Soak, and Fatigue scores, but suffer a -2 to Defense.  Replace +2 on Damage with +4 to Strength, +2 to Soak and Fatigue with +4 to Constitution, and -2 to Defense with -2 to Armor Class and what does it look like?</blockquote>

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