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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FadedC" data-source="post: 4378690" data-attributes="member: 55463">A difference of less then 7 hit points is not just a may first level, it's likely. TWF rangers in fact will have more hp then a fighter who doesn't take toughness. I'll grant you this does tend to change at higher level.   Funny that the person who is posting on the 4e boards despite his lack of intention to ever play it, and despite the very moderators of the board asking him to stop, is accusing me of arguing for the sake or arguing. I've already shown you the math on how wizards can and often will have acs in the same range as defenders, which I notice you have completely ignored. You seem to be arguing that the mage will never invest in magic armor and will be running around in +0 robes at level 30. The game assumes that everyone maintains magic armor, weapons, and a neck slot within a few levels of their level. As a result the mage should never be more then one + behind the defender.   Just like I can't help but roll my eyes at the fact that you continue to claim there will be an 8 point ac difference, despite all the math that's been given to show that there will not. If your so convinced this is the case, please lay out a wizard with leather armor and a good int who has an ac 8 less then a comparable level defender. Maker sure to give them all magic items reasonable for their level.   Funny I went through the thread and you never said that, but I'll be more then happy to admit I'm wrong if you link the post where you did. You have said in other threads however that you threw away your books and have no intention to play. But maybe you played in d&d experience or something like that. As for lack of reading, I'm not the one who is completely ignoring all the math showing defender vs. wizard ac. In fact the mage in my group at lvl 1 has an ac exactly 1 point less then my scale and shield fighter. I will grant you that you may be right about healing surge values at paragon though, but certainly not at heroic. So anyway the ball is in your court if your so convinced. Stat out a comparible wizard and fighter, say around level 10. And show how the wizard has an ac 8 points less despite making a strong effort to keep his ac high. You can even give the wizard a 1 point lower enhancement bonus on his leather armor if you want to reflect his greater focus on magic implements.</blockquote>

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