Arthurian Magic -- Reining in the magical artillery.

[MaxKaladin]

I've been looking at doing a vaguely Celtic-Arthurian game. I've looked at both Relics and Rituals: Excalibur and Legends of Excalibur and they're both fine books, but I'm not terribly happy with the solutions either gives to the "magic problem". Specifically, the Arthurian/Celtic genre should not have wizards and priests acting like mobile artillery in battle. R&R:E basically just suggests talking to the players about staying "in-genre" as a solution while LoE has this spell point system that replaces the regular D&D system. I'd like to find a solution somewhere between the two. Something that doesn't resort to a completely different magic system but which doesn't just rely on people artificially acting "in-genre."

This is complicated by all the other caster classes like paladins, rangers and bards, who will also be affected by most changes.

Any thoughts on the best way to reign in the "magical artillery"? I'm not adverse to "social" solutions within the setting (like wizards being outlawed or something), but I'd prefer something that doesn't make it a complete drag to play a spellcaster. I'll also consider alternate classes, but not something so radically different as a spell point system*

* This is because this is set elsewhere in an established homebrew where the normal rules are held to apply. It's very isolated, so different training and a lack of exposure to the rest of the world are fine (i.e. new classes, wierd spell selections and so on), but magic should fundimentally work the same way (a wizard from one spot ought to be able to recognize and be able to learn spells from the other area with no problem and, if the two areas were to come into contact, running a combat shouldn't really involve two completely different magic systems.)

Thanks!

 

[XCorvis]

It sounds to me like you should just trim down the spell selection to make spellcasters more subtle, so here's a hard and fast idea:

Eliminate evocation spells. They're the flashiest and the most combat-oriented. The players will either fall back on the few remaining damage spells (necromancy and conjuration) or switch to other approaches, like enchantments.

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah its pretty much a case of limiting avaialble Schools - Abjuration, Enchantment Divinition and Illusion could be the only allowed Schools

With Conjuration, Evocation and Necromancy illegal (Conjuration - Divine only)

I also like the idea of spell recovery at 1 day per level (eg it takes 7 days before you can cast another level 7 spell - or one per 'week', 1 level 1 spell per day and 0-level spells cast freely)

 

[PosterBoy]

I've been looking at doing a vaguely Celtic-Arthurian game. I've looked at both Relics and Rituals: Excalibur and Legends of Excalibur and they're both fine books, but I'm not terribly happy with the solutions either gives to the "magic problem". Specifically, the Arthurian/Celtic genre should not have wizards and priests acting like mobile artillery in battle. R&R:E basically just suggests talking to the players about staying "in-genre" as a solution while LoE has this spell point system that replaces the regular D&D system. I'd like to find a solution somewhere between the two. Something that doesn't resort to a completely different magic system but which doesn't just rely on people artificially acting "in-genre."
Thanks!

I'll note that in addition to the spell point system, Legends also has a much more limited spell list per class. So spellcasters are by no means "mobile artillery" since nearly all the invocation spells have been removed.

 

[zenld]

i run an legends of excalibur game, and i have yet to see the spell caster as mobile artillery. few of the major offensive spells are still around, and the casting classes have been greatly reduced. the new classes have very limited spell lists comparably.
also, the spell point system limits the number and power of spells cast. there are some pretty steep lims there.

i'd say check it out a little closer.

zen

 

[Old One]

Grim Tales...

Max -

Have you considered incorporating the GT magic method? This does fundamentally change the way magic is used, viewed, etc...without necessarily changing the magic system itself.

If GT had been available when I first put Faded Glory together, I would probably have used it. I think it would be a good way to go...

My 2 coppers,

~ Old One

 

[Westwind]

You may want to consider the magic system presented in Midnight. It cuts way back on how many Evocation spells you'll see (or, for that matter, any other spell) but it's still possible so when Merlin chucks a fireball it will be new and scary for the players.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Simply remove all area of effect damage spells from the game. That pretty much sorts it.

Single target ones can stay - they have such a limited effect on a 'battle' that noone is likely to notice their impact.

 

[Caspian]

One must also have to note the radius of most area affect spells. Fireball is a 20 ft radius, which can catch a whole bunch of people bunched up, or a couple of people spread out. Tactics would probably change with the inclusion of mages, if they can cast fireballs all day, and there lies the problem, endurance. How many fireballs can be cast by a mage? Not assuming for wands, like 6 fireballs from a sorcerer, is hardly going to turn the tide of battle, may be a bit of a pisser, but for armies with thousands of people in them, not morale breaking.

Then there's the other question, what level are these supposed mages? How many high level mages are there in this setting? You need to be like 6th (I think) level to even cast a 3rd level spell, and I doubt whole lots of mages are just running around in your setting.




Jonathan

 

[MaxKaladin]

I'll note that in addition to the spell point system, Legends also has a much more limited spell list per class. So spellcasters are by no means "mobile artillery" since nearly all the invocation spells have been removed.

I should note that I'm not worried they would be mobile artillery with the LoE system. My problem there is I just don't want a spell point system. I suppose I could make up some technobabble (magobabble?) to explain how both systems work in the world but I'm not keen on doing that.

If I wanted to do spell points for this campaign, I'd probably use GURPS.

This isn't to say that I dislike LoE. I plan to lift other elements for my campaign, like some of the base and prestige classes. Just not the spell system. If I were running actual Arthurian britain (as opposed to an Arthurian area of my own world), I'd probably just run LoE straight.