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<blockquote data-quote="Bhaal" data-source="post: 841251" data-attributes="member: 8702"><p>Monte, I agree that the BoVD has some huge misconceptions in the commercial world. The guy at the gaming store described it as "D&D's mature book" when he was telling me about it. Thumbing through the book and glacing at the art--oh boy, the art--with "D&D's mature book" in mind made it seem about as mature as a hormone-driven 15 year old boy*. It's a great book once you get rid of that paradigm. The art however really did it in for me. If you know the artists, or the people in charge of that stuff, let them know that there's nothing evil, vile or dark about "adding more breasts" to all the pictures. They were obviously trying to get the "mature" point across ("mature" NOT the point of the book), and did so in the most immature way possible. Half my gaming group is female, we're all 20+ (many with degrees), and the women <strong>howled</strong> over how badly the book seemed with the art. I'm glad to hear this wasn't your intent, though <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />.</p><p></p><p>Back to topic, that was a great article. I really liked his first suggestion of "giving players off-screen lives". The thought occured to me that very little time usually goes by in a campaign. All the action that brings a character from a 1st level flunky to an all-powerful hero is bunched up together. Even something as simple as having a level 1-7 adventure, let years go by and let the characters settle into their new lives, only to have them meet back up for their level 7-14 adventure in their middle ages, etc. That there would probably add a lot of 'mature' depth, since the characters will most likely have property, spouses, offspring, etc. Doing it during sessions might be tricky, and I'm not sure how the players would react, but the phrase about giving characters some time got me thinking.</p><p></p><p>As for my own input, I think an addition to the already stated moral ambiguity is responsibility. Conceptually, the player is faced with decisions, none of which have an easy option, and they must deal with the drawbacks of the option they take. Sacrificing their home town to save a nation, or the converse of saving their hometown while a nation is destroyed, as a cheesy example. Something where they feel the weight of the decision, and whatever choice they make sits on their shoulders. You of course don't want to just tear down your players' self esteem during sessions, reward them for the good in their decision, but let the palpable sting of repricussion bite every once in a while. Make those victories hard-earned and a little bittersweet, and those broken eggs and other metaphors will make the experience feel far more mature than just slaying the orc king who was raiding villages.</p><p></p><p>I don't mean you can only have a "no black and white, only shades of gray" scenario, the lines between good/evil/right/wrong can be clearly defined. What I mean is for maturity you need responsibility, and responsibility comes with--among other things--sacrifice and making tough decisions.</p><p></p><p>* No offense to any hormone-driven 15 year old boys, of course.</p><p></p><p>EDIT for grammar and such.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bhaal, post: 841251, member: 8702"] Monte, I agree that the BoVD has some huge misconceptions in the commercial world. The guy at the gaming store described it as "D&D's mature book" when he was telling me about it. Thumbing through the book and glacing at the art--oh boy, the art--with "D&D's mature book" in mind made it seem about as mature as a hormone-driven 15 year old boy*. It's a great book once you get rid of that paradigm. The art however really did it in for me. If you know the artists, or the people in charge of that stuff, let them know that there's nothing evil, vile or dark about "adding more breasts" to all the pictures. They were obviously trying to get the "mature" point across ("mature" NOT the point of the book), and did so in the most immature way possible. Half my gaming group is female, we're all 20+ (many with degrees), and the women [b]howled[/b] over how badly the book seemed with the art. I'm glad to hear this wasn't your intent, though :). Back to topic, that was a great article. I really liked his first suggestion of "giving players off-screen lives". The thought occured to me that very little time usually goes by in a campaign. All the action that brings a character from a 1st level flunky to an all-powerful hero is bunched up together. Even something as simple as having a level 1-7 adventure, let years go by and let the characters settle into their new lives, only to have them meet back up for their level 7-14 adventure in their middle ages, etc. That there would probably add a lot of 'mature' depth, since the characters will most likely have property, spouses, offspring, etc. Doing it during sessions might be tricky, and I'm not sure how the players would react, but the phrase about giving characters some time got me thinking. As for my own input, I think an addition to the already stated moral ambiguity is responsibility. Conceptually, the player is faced with decisions, none of which have an easy option, and they must deal with the drawbacks of the option they take. Sacrificing their home town to save a nation, or the converse of saving their hometown while a nation is destroyed, as a cheesy example. Something where they feel the weight of the decision, and whatever choice they make sits on their shoulders. You of course don't want to just tear down your players' self esteem during sessions, reward them for the good in their decision, but let the palpable sting of repricussion bite every once in a while. Make those victories hard-earned and a little bittersweet, and those broken eggs and other metaphors will make the experience feel far more mature than just slaying the orc king who was raiding villages. I don't mean you can only have a "no black and white, only shades of gray" scenario, the lines between good/evil/right/wrong can be clearly defined. What I mean is for maturity you need responsibility, and responsibility comes with--among other things--sacrifice and making tough decisions. * No offense to any hormone-driven 15 year old boys, of course. EDIT for grammar and such. [/QUOTE]
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