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<blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6749887" data-attributes="member: 25818">Originally posted by rampant:Yes the complaints about spell versatility sound like they come from 3e, that's because 3e was the last edition to have this issue. That's like telling a guy with his leg chopped off by an axe that he sounds like the last guy to get his leg chopped off with an axe. They're going to sound pretty similar in a lot of ways, partly because the casting system in 5e suffers from being too much like 3e casting, I mean yeah they fixed a lot of things but not everything, and the shapeshifting magic is if anything worse than it was in 3e. The fact that 5e has a variable level of scroll-schema access doesn't actually fix the problem from the design end, i.e. classes that don't pay opportunity costs for new powers. It forces the DM to play a certain kind of world in order to maintain class balance, or to ban/mod classes themselves in order to maintain class balance in their worlds. The other way around the party composition problem is to allow any of the artificer's allies to use their infused items. It's not a completely broken ability in and of itself I just want to make it more consistent across party types. As to the artificer having always had access to every spell in the game, at least indirectly: I am very aware, in fact I attribute a lot of what broke the 3e artificer to a combination of universal spell access and a poorly controlled crafting system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RealAlHazred, post: 6749887, member: 25818"] [b]Originally posted by rampant:[/b] Yes the complaints about spell versatility sound like they come from 3e, that's because 3e was the last edition to have this issue. That's like telling a guy with his leg chopped off by an axe that he sounds like the last guy to get his leg chopped off with an axe. They're going to sound pretty similar in a lot of ways, partly because the casting system in 5e suffers from being too much like 3e casting, I mean yeah they fixed a lot of things but not everything, and the shapeshifting magic is if anything worse than it was in 3e. The fact that 5e has a variable level of scroll-schema access doesn't actually fix the problem from the design end, i.e. classes that don't pay opportunity costs for new powers. It forces the DM to play a certain kind of world in order to maintain class balance, or to ban/mod classes themselves in order to maintain class balance in their worlds. The other way around the party composition problem is to allow any of the artificer's allies to use their infused items. It's not a completely broken ability in and of itself I just want to make it more consistent across party types. As to the artificer having always had access to every spell in the game, at least indirectly: I am very aware, in fact I attribute a lot of what broke the 3e artificer to a combination of universal spell access and a poorly controlled crafting system. [/QUOTE]

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