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<blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6749908" data-attributes="member: 25818">Originally posted by rampant:My entire point is that the open ended number of schema known is inherently unbalancing the class. IF you reduce the number of schema known for the base class then it's dependent on the DM to give them opportunities to expand that list, iif you don't and the class gets the opportunity it's unbalanced. What part of this do you disagree with or not understand? It's plain old bad design because the class fails to establish an evaluatable baseline of competence. The artificer sin one game can be drastically less mechanically powerful/versatile than a similar artificer in another game because of whether or not magic items/scrolls are avaliable or not. You're trying to make the artificer run on setting rather than it's own power. The class is unbalanceable as long as it's powers remain undefined. As for magic used on non-mages my point was that the spells that would actually help being a weapon user more interesting are self only buffs used by classes like the ranger. A lot of th ebuffs used by a dedicate dmagic class are kind of boring.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RealAlHazred, post: 6749908, member: 25818"] [b]Originally posted by rampant:[/b] My entire point is that the open ended number of schema known is inherently unbalancing the class. IF you reduce the number of schema known for the base class then it's dependent on the DM to give them opportunities to expand that list, iif you don't and the class gets the opportunity it's unbalanced. What part of this do you disagree with or not understand? It's plain old bad design because the class fails to establish an evaluatable baseline of competence. The artificer sin one game can be drastically less mechanically powerful/versatile than a similar artificer in another game because of whether or not magic items/scrolls are avaliable or not. You're trying to make the artificer run on setting rather than it's own power. The class is unbalanceable as long as it's powers remain undefined. As for magic used on non-mages my point was that the spells that would actually help being a weapon user more interesting are self only buffs used by classes like the ranger. A lot of th ebuffs used by a dedicate dmagic class are kind of boring. [/QUOTE]

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