Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="der_kluge" data-source="post: 1076268" data-attributes="member: 945">Whoa, that's pretty hardcore.&nbsp; But, I'm sure it can be done. Simple item... he says....And no increase in spell level??&nbsp; Nice.&nbsp; That won't be cheap.&nbsp; Let's see if I can do it.First off, I'd like anyone playing along try to create this item using core DMG rules.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />What you describe is a &quot;use-per&quot; item, capable of producing a certain effect a number of times per day.&nbsp; In this case 1 &quot;use-per&quot; day, or 5 &quot;uses-per&quot; day.&nbsp; Hence the name.Items that grant feats are &quot;bonus items&quot; which are calculated the same as +1 swords, or items that increase ability scores.&nbsp; So, essentially what you're describing is a use-per item that grants a feat.&nbsp; I'm almost embarrassed to say it, but our rules cover no such item, especially since the spell that would normally allow such a thing &quot;borrow ability&quot; specifically does not allow one to borrow meta-magic feats.But all is not lost, it can still be created, we just have to do it in a roundabout way.&nbsp; Limited wish is that way.&nbsp; Since Limited Wish can replicate any spell 6th level or lower (with some restrictions), it's a perfect candidate for our rod.Since it's likely that you can't cast &quot;limited wish&quot;, you need spell-trigger, which essentially means that while some day you *can* cast it, right now you can't.&nbsp; If you could, then spell completion would be a slightly cheaper alternative.From table 2.5, The cost for a &quot;use-per&quot; spell-trigger item usable once per day is 7.&nbsp; (3 base +4)&nbsp; 5 per day is 11 (3+8)The spell we're going to put into it Limited Wish. But wait, what's that?&nbsp; You want it Quickened?&nbsp; No sweat.&nbsp; We just apply the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to our spell, which increases the spell level to 11.&nbsp; No problem.&nbsp; Obviously, some DMs might have a problem with such a thing, but we'll just extrapolate out based on the current charts, and we'll see where it gets us.&nbsp; In a technical sense, such an item couldn't be created.But, an 11th level spell could be cast by a 21st level wizard if we extrapolate out.&nbsp; Our system certainly doesn't prohibit such anomalies.The formula for the creation cost is:10gp(spell level + caster level&nbsp; - 1) * number of spell slots ^2Our caster level is 21, our spell level is 11, and we have 7 (or 11) from above.&nbsp; Plugging in the numbers:10gp(11 + 21 - 1) * 7^2 = 10gp(31)*49 = 15,190gp (creation cost).&nbsp; The market cost would be 30,380gp which seems appropriate.5 uses per day:10gp(11 + 21 - 1) * 11^2 = 310gp*121=37,510gp (creation cost); market cost = 75,020gpNow, technically, you could make a &quot;minor wish&quot; spell, use that as the basis for this item, and then it would be more legitimate.&nbsp; The effects would be lowered, but could work just the same.&nbsp; For example, if minor wish were a 5th level spell, it could replicate 4th level spells, etc, with the same qualifiers that limited wish has.&nbsp; But, you could legitimately &quot;quicken&quot; it to 9th level.&nbsp; The costs would be as follows:10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 7^2 = 250gp*49 = 12,250gp (market cost = 24,500gp)10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 11^2 = 250gp*121 = 30,250gp (market cost = 60,500gp) (for 5 uses per day)This &quot;minor wish&quot; version is probably about all I'd let my players get away with.Incidentally, this last version would require either 7 or 11 9th level spell slots to be created.A 20th level Sorcerer with a 28 charisma is what would be required to cast seven 9th level spells to create this item.&nbsp; Casting eleven 9th level spells is practically impossible without some insane charisma.&nbsp; I'm not even going to consider the wizard since a sorcerer would be able to cast more 9th level spells in a day by default.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="der_kluge, post: 1076268, member: 945"] Whoa, that's pretty hardcore. But, I'm sure it can be done. Simple item... he says.... And no increase in spell level?? Nice. That won't be cheap. Let's see if I can do it. First off, I'd like anyone playing along try to create this item using core DMG rules. ;) What you describe is a "use-per" item, capable of producing a certain effect a number of times per day. In this case 1 "use-per" day, or 5 "uses-per" day. Hence the name. Items that grant feats are "bonus items" which are calculated the same as +1 swords, or items that increase ability scores. So, essentially what you're describing is a use-per item that grants a feat. I'm almost embarrassed to say it, but our rules cover no such item, especially since the spell that would normally allow such a thing "borrow ability" specifically does not allow one to borrow meta-magic feats. But all is not lost, it can still be created, we just have to do it in a roundabout way. Limited wish is that way. Since Limited Wish can replicate any spell 6th level or lower (with some restrictions), it's a perfect candidate for our rod. Since it's likely that you can't cast "limited wish", you need spell-trigger, which essentially means that while some day you *can* cast it, right now you can't. If you could, then spell completion would be a slightly cheaper alternative. From table 2.5, The cost for a "use-per" spell-trigger item usable once per day is 7. (3 base +4) 5 per day is 11 (3+8) The spell we're going to put into it Limited Wish. But wait, what's that? You want it Quickened? No sweat. We just apply the Quicken Spell metamagic feat to our spell, which increases the spell level to 11. No problem. Obviously, some DMs might have a problem with such a thing, but we'll just extrapolate out based on the current charts, and we'll see where it gets us. In a technical sense, such an item couldn't be created. But, an 11th level spell could be cast by a 21st level wizard if we extrapolate out. Our system certainly doesn't prohibit such anomalies. The formula for the creation cost is: 10gp(spell level + caster level - 1) * number of spell slots ^2 Our caster level is 21, our spell level is 11, and we have 7 (or 11) from above. Plugging in the numbers: 10gp(11 + 21 - 1) * 7^2 = 10gp(31)*49 = 15,190gp (creation cost). The market cost would be 30,380gp which seems appropriate. 5 uses per day: 10gp(11 + 21 - 1) * 11^2 = 310gp*121=37,510gp (creation cost); market cost = 75,020gp Now, technically, you could make a "minor wish" spell, use that as the basis for this item, and then it would be more legitimate. The effects would be lowered, but could work just the same. For example, if minor wish were a 5th level spell, it could replicate 4th level spells, etc, with the same qualifiers that limited wish has. But, you could legitimately "quicken" it to 9th level. The costs would be as follows: 10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 7^2 = 250gp*49 = 12,250gp (market cost = 24,500gp) 10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 11^2 = 250gp*121 = 30,250gp (market cost = 60,500gp) (for 5 uses per day) This "minor wish" version is probably about all I'd let my players get away with. Incidentally, this last version would require either 7 or 11 9th level spell slots to be created. A 20th level Sorcerer with a 28 charisma is what would be required to cast seven 9th level spells to create this item. Casting eleven 9th level spells is practically impossible without some insane charisma. I'm not even going to consider the wizard since a sorcerer would be able to cast more 9th level spells in a day by default. [/QUOTE]

Verification