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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8114165" data-attributes="member: 20564">I have a lot of non-D&amp;D experience.&nbsp; You could say the first decade of serious play D&amp;D was at most 40% and more likely 30%.&nbsp; And I played a lot of D&amp;D.&nbsp; Just I also played a lot of different genres and back then there wasn't &quot;D&amp;D space opera&quot;, &quot;D&amp;D hard SF&quot;, &quot;D&amp;D urban fantasy&quot; and especially &quot;D&amp;D supers&quot; as some of my more prolific genres as there is now.&nbsp; As such, I've come to see the gaming subdivisions even within a genre depending on what type of story and feel that we're going for.&nbsp; So for me reaching for a system that matches that is second nature.&nbsp; My biggest problem is convincing others to learn a new system.So I don't think these various other systems automatically give up playability for aesthetic.&nbsp; Now, some do - that's a trap to avoid in game design.&nbsp; But byt he same I think there are some that give up playability for ... well, nothing leaps out at me.&nbsp; I was just reading the 7e Call of Cthulhu rules, and it really feels like they were written in the late 90s instead of 2015 in terms of maturity of game mechanics vs. modern sensibilities.&nbsp; So giving up playability I don't link strongly for going for an aesthetic.&nbsp; Some systems, like Apocalypse World or Blades in the Dark are dripping aesthetic, yet have good rules support.&nbsp; The structure around BitD for telling the type of story it is trying to evoke is great.&nbsp; Marvel Heroic Roleplay was the same thing, the best comic book (vs. superheor) RPG I've seen, and it mechanically supported it's feel very well.Actually, that last is why I kickstarted Cortex Prime, and the shiny (well, shiny &amp; matte) book just arrived last week.&nbsp; It's more like a toolbox to make the RPG you want for the feel you are going for.&nbsp; It doesn't even have set ability scores - a level of flexibility that even generic systems haven't gone for.&nbsp; Because it's the engine that can do Thor and Hawkeye without making either feel overpowered or weak, and similar in other versions like Leverage or Smallville.&nbsp; How do you make Jimmy Olsen as valid a PC as Clark Kent?&nbsp; It manages by taking a page from how the show does it.To change to a different topic, I think there are wonderful settings for a story that I wouldn't want to play in a game.&nbsp; Often because the setting is really focused around a chosen one/few that are the movers and shakers.&nbsp; For all the RPG inspiration, LotR is probably one of them unless you change the age so it has nothing to do with the Fellowship or the One Ring.&nbsp; Star Wars was another at one point, but now they've established enough jedi, force sensitives,a nd such that's it's not all about Luke as their only hope.&nbsp; (&quot;No, there is another.&quot;)And that leads that who cares if Gandalf would be 5th level in D&amp;D, because the assumptions and context of D&amp;D don't hold true in Middle Earth.&nbsp; Gandalf is damn powerful, even if Darth Vader could beat him.&nbsp; See, context matters.To circle back around, I think there's a lot of good systems out there that give different play feels than D&amp;D.&nbsp; Some also hit a particular aesthetic hard, some don't.&nbsp; If you want a D&amp;D feel, play D&amp;D and import the aesthetic - because another system will feel like a failure if you want D&amp;D and are only playing it for it's aesthetic.&nbsp; That's not really a failure of the system, it's a failure of aligning expectations, an issue of perception.&nbsp; A system can succeed or fail on it's own right, but delivering the play style it pushes for when that doesn't match what the players want is a different issue.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8114165, member: 20564"] I have a lot of non-D&D experience. You could say the first decade of serious play D&D was at most 40% and more likely 30%. And I played a lot of D&D. Just I also played a lot of different genres and back then there wasn't "D&D space opera", "D&D hard SF", "D&D urban fantasy" and especially "D&D supers" as some of my more prolific genres as there is now. As such, I've come to see the gaming subdivisions even within a genre depending on what type of story and feel that we're going for. So for me reaching for a system that matches that is second nature. My biggest problem is convincing others to learn a new system. So I don't think these various other systems automatically give up playability for aesthetic. Now, some do - that's a trap to avoid in game design. But byt he same I think there are some that give up playability for ... well, nothing leaps out at me. I was just reading the 7e Call of Cthulhu rules, and it really feels like they were written in the late 90s instead of 2015 in terms of maturity of game mechanics vs. modern sensibilities. So giving up playability I don't link strongly for going for an aesthetic. Some systems, like Apocalypse World or Blades in the Dark are dripping aesthetic, yet have good rules support. The structure around BitD for telling the type of story it is trying to evoke is great. Marvel Heroic Roleplay was the same thing, the best comic book (vs. superheor) RPG I've seen, and it mechanically supported it's feel very well. Actually, that last is why I kickstarted Cortex Prime, and the shiny (well, shiny & matte) book just arrived last week. It's more like a toolbox to make the RPG you want for the feel you are going for. It doesn't even have set ability scores - a level of flexibility that even generic systems haven't gone for. Because it's the engine that can do Thor and Hawkeye without making either feel overpowered or weak, and similar in other versions like Leverage or Smallville. How do you make Jimmy Olsen as valid a PC as Clark Kent? It manages by taking a page from how the show does it. To change to a different topic, I think there are wonderful settings for a story that I wouldn't want to play in a game. Often because the setting is really focused around a chosen one/few that are the movers and shakers. For all the RPG inspiration, LotR is probably one of them unless you change the age so it has nothing to do with the Fellowship or the One Ring. Star Wars was another at one point, but now they've established enough jedi, force sensitives,a nd such that's it's not all about Luke as their only hope. ("No, there is another.") And that leads that who cares if Gandalf would be 5th level in D&D, because the assumptions and context of D&D don't hold true in Middle Earth. Gandalf is damn powerful, even if Darth Vader could beat him. See, context matters. To circle back around, I think there's a lot of good systems out there that give different play feels than D&D. Some also hit a particular aesthetic hard, some don't. If you want a D&D feel, play D&D and import the aesthetic - because another system will feel like a failure if you want D&D and are only playing it for it's aesthetic. That's not really a failure of the system, it's a failure of aligning expectations, an issue of perception. A system can succeed or fail on it's own right, but delivering the play style it pushes for when that doesn't match what the players want is a different issue. [/QUOTE]

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