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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wolv0rine" data-source="post: 3358066" data-attributes="member: 9045">Well yes, this is true to change out his spells the Wizard still needs his spellbooks.  But I feel that your Spellbook should be more important to a Wizard than what is effectively a tool to swap your available spells.  You should depend on it, return to it the way a D&D player keeps his PH & DMG handy and refers to it when a rule slips his mind.  THat's what I'm going for. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And thanks, when I try to figure how to juggle the formulae for these things, I usually try to do 3 examples for myself; low level, mid level, high level (often chosen arbitrarily as to what exact level, but "somewhere 'round there") to see if the pattern goes in the gross general manner I wanted.  Somestimes (this was one) it doesn't, but I find it intersting enough to let it lie. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Yes, I won't dispute there there are spells that need casting, I was just saying I don't like the seeimingly all-too-prevalent "Oh, a battle.  Buff us up, Scotty" that 3E gave us.  I know, that's why I alluded to it.  So you'd know it was there, and could account for not being able to account for it.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Feh.  Letting 6th level characters cast 9th level spells leads to your character blasting through his mana pool in a New York Minute and running a dangerous chance of getting bumped and interrupted or...  frell who knows what...  and screaming through Arcane Burn he doesn't have the stones to stand up to.  And honestly, I've nerfed Arcane Burn no fewer than three times to make this system less dangerous for arcane spellcasters. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But, really...  Billy the 6th Lvl Wizard wants to cast a L9 spell?  Be my guest, Billy...  at best you have a 19 (20 if you're one lucky, lucky cuss) Int.  That means you have no more than 20-22 Mana.  That L9 spell is going to run you 9 Mana, and this gives me a wholly different idea that could solve the unhappiness of the Memorization scheme AND help re-balance this breaking of the meta-cap...  (keep in mind I'm throwing this off-the-cuff more than 10 minutes after the idea struck me, it's more than half gone now. :/)  Every other caster here BUT the wizard has a casting check...  even if we ignore whether or not a failed casting check negates the spell (and like you said, it seems so obvious you missed the ambiguity I put in) that check has other is dangerous for the Sor and Bard.  The Wizard should have a casting check too.  I just couldn't think of an explination for one because I had the memorization rules already.  But what if the Wiz needs a Spellcraft check to determine if he remembers the spell well enough to cast without failure and/or Arcane Burn?  Say somethng like (I am totally making this up as I go along so if the numbers don't make any practical sense, blame ad libbing) DC 15 + (spell level)...   frell I had something more interesting there, something factoring in how long it's been since you studied your spellbook, but lost it while typing (I'm sick and have had no sleep...  apologies).  Anwyay, I'm hoping you get the vague concept I'm trying to remember long enough to type in.  If it was too hard to Learn a L9 spell, and too hard to make the spellcraft check to have remembered it properly, ON TOP of costing you 9 Mana (sans metamagic feats)...  Billy's not going to be casting many L9 spells.BUT, it is my firm belief that Billy's character level shouldn't 100% preclude him from being able to.  It should only make it Harder.  D&D has always been (in my eyes) a game where you don't say "You can't", you say "It's gonna be this hard".  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />LOL...  ph33r my abiguity sk1llz!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> Ahhhh, gotcha.  Yeah the In Briefs were thrown together before teh summary document as a kind of shorter-hand blurb kind of thing, and I figured I didn't know how many people might look into the thread, and only look for something simple to read, and the In Brief seemed good.  I buffed them out a LITTLE bit from the notehand version I had to begin with, but going just by that it's misleading.Hmmm...  you could be right on the Spellcraft check (it was what I could think of that scaled with level and was fairly controllable by the player.  So that at 1st level, 6th level, 12th level, and upwards the check would be at least somewhat scaled to the character's level).  The use-it-or-lose-it thing is interesting, but doesn't really fit the feel of the Sorcerer I've got laid down for it all.  The Sorcerer, in the simplest terms I can think of at this moment, is kind of like an Arcane Savant.  If you ASK him how any of it works, he has no idea.  In fact you'd probably screw up his casting by asking too mch about it (I'd throw on some -1's to a Concentration check, personally, for it)...  but he understands how it works and how to do it on a subconscious, visceral, gut-instinct level.  It's like the kid school who watches teh teacher do a long calculus problem on the blackboard, and then proceeds to walk up and - without knowing the fundamentals of calculus - reproduces the result a week later.Well no, no one wants anyone casting L9 spells on a Nat 1.  lol  Granted there comes a level where you should be utterly confident in your casting prowess regardless of the non-epic level of the spell, but you shouldn't be perfect.And as far as degenerately munchkin 20th Lvl Sorcerers go...  either they have a spineless DM who empowers them and there's squat you and I can do about them...  or their DM will see the problem and present a way to deal with it.  I prefer the second method.  heheBut an 18th lvl Sor is approaching Epic Level, and should be gettring pretty darned good, even in regards to L9 spells.  Not even close to Nat 1 good, but...</blockquote>

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