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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wolv0rine" data-source="post: 3358200" data-attributes="member: 9045">LOL.  See, this is an aspect of this system as a whole that’s been with it for so long that I forgot about it being there to mention it ahead of time.  It very intentionally took the limiting power of spell selection/access away from character level and tries in various ways (and when I say various, I mean it’s gone through many more permutations and variations through the years than you see here) to instead put it within the domain of the character itself.  In a way (and in specific effect in a few versions of the system) there are no spell levels (save for increasing and decreasing degrees of power of the spell upon casting), there are only spells that are more or less complex and difficult to master/understand.  That may seem to be splitting hairs of difference to some people, but it’s a pretty big gulf in my eyes.That all being disclaimered, you did make a good catch in that I don’t have a limiter on Divine casting here.  That irks me, because I know I put one in there at one point and apparently that’s not the version of the file I altered to make the Original Post.  Hate when that happens.  So yes, there isn’t anything to keep Cole the Cleric from making FAI check after FAI check until he managed to pull off Whatever he may try to be doing, which IS bad.  Now I could be crotchety and say any DM who will let you do that and NOT have your deity put the smackdown on you in any 1d4 of like 6 ways should pass the DM hat…  but that’s bad design work. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />RE: The removal of fear from Arcane Burn from Sorcerers -- Oh man, I think I accidentally nerfed out a hard-sweated and important feature of Arcane Burn…  See, originally the conversion I did of Ralts and Kerrick’s Arcane Burn mechanic was closer to their version, which is pretty harsh.  First came the Will save, which if failed inflicted 1 pt of permanent ability damage to the caster’s Primary casting ability (Int for Wizards, Cha for Sorcerers & Bards), then came the Fort save for the direct HP damage.  But I nerfed if a few times as being really harsh.  And I managed to nerf the Will save penalty right out of the Sorcerer.  Big oops.  I’ll have to search through some other backups of my files to see if the correct version is there somewhere.  I worked it out with Kerrick pretty heavily so that Sorcerers suffered as much as Wizards and Bards.  But Arcane Burn carries a price to pay beyond the HP damage for Wiz, Sor, and Bard.  Divine casters are still protected from Arcane Burn, and therein lies the problem you were pointing out.  But I felt the mistake was important enough for this little tangent.I can take FAI = Wis Mod + Caster Level * 1.5.  I tend to forget about the 1.5 option too often, thanks for reminding me.  And if it comes out that well on the bigger picture, it’s all bonus.Again, I know that Kerrick and I worked out the problem of Divine casters being able to just keep trying, and I don’t know why that information’s not in the file I took the info from for this thread.  It’s infuriating.  Especially because that was like 2-3 years ago and I can’t remember what we did.  But I like your suggestions, they seem to work fairly well as far as I can see without being too easy on the divine caster.  The FAI check is meant to make casting miracles uncertain, but not unlikely, and offset the fact that the divine caster doesn’t have to pre-select his spells.  (A house rule that I’ve used since my early days of 1E, picked up from one of the first groups I played with)Another limiter not included here that occurs to me (I’ve been creating this as part of a whole – a campaign setting – and this part of it isn’t in the magic section or the classes section, it’s in with the Deities section) is that your deity determines which domains you have access to.  So having access to 1-4th level spells is fine and dandy, but you’re not getting access to every single spell on the Cleric spell list.  You’re getting what your deity provides.  I could just be stating the obvious and maybe even the RAW here, like I said earlier I’m sick and haven’t slept, so my brain’s pretty cloudy.  But some Clerics won’t have access to the Healing domain, some Druids won’t have access to the War domain, some Paladins won’t have access to Protection, etc.But yeah, diminishing returns on attempts at ‘macroing’ your spells is definitely a good plan.</blockquote>

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