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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wolv0rine" data-source="post: 3359835" data-attributes="member: 9045">Interesting, dipping into Ritual magic already, eh?  Hehe      True, but that’s something that, when you’re bouncing all over the place with a handful of different things like this, is devilishly hard to do until you’ve done some serious feedback gathering and playtesting.  Which is why this thread is here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   I know, if I were more industrious and responsible and whatnot I’d be trying to update the Original Post with any changes that the thread brings about.  But I’m just not.  When I think it’s run it’s course, or when I think it’s needed for the thread to continue without being too unwieldly, I’ll either update the OP or just post the revised version for us to go with.   Hmm, you really think so?  I would  have thought that the Wizard’s Mana Pool and guarantee of success when casting (no casting check, the ritualized, rote formulae of spells pretty much takes a lot of the ‘art’ out of it), the fact that the Wizard always knows how much power he’s got left, and what he can reasonably expect to be capable of as opposed to the Sorcerer’s open-ended potential vs. his never knowing how his magic’s going to go down would make the Wizard a nice option.  Not to mention between spellbooks and scrolls, the Wizard can use outside sources to basically ‘read the spell out’, whereas the Sorcerer can’t do that.  There are no Sorcerer spellbooks, and while it’s not listed in the OP rules, I don’t think a Sorcerer should be able to get much use from scrolls.  He may understand magic use on a gut level, but that doesn’t mean he’s had the training to decipher the shorthand of a spell in the written form.  (I know, naughty me for not thinking of that To address it earlier)   I don’t know about blowing them both out of the water, now.  The divine caster (I know I could just say Cleric, but there’s Druid and Paladin in there too…  ) really isn’t that much different from the Sorcerer, mechanically.  I tried to make sure there were differences, mind you.  But it’s still basically a casting check based on a primary stat (or in the cleric’s case, a casting check based on a stat based on a primary stat.  FAI is a little bit of a left hand turn on that one).   Now, if we bring in the limiters you suggested earlier…     The first one gives your Cleric pause before he casts indiscriminately because he knows that while he can keep trying all he wants – his deity doesn’t mind how often he tries to cast – each attempt lowers the chances of each following attempt.  That means that if he goes around casting divine spells willy-nilly, he’s going to be stacking the odds against his FAI check when he may really need it.   The second one is really amusing, because it allows the Cleric to use his FAI almost like an Action Point (which is a mechanic that is used in the campaign world this system is designed specifically for, but that’s just an aside because not every game does).     Now even if we could assume every game used action points, I still like this because unlike A.P.s this is a nice FAI-sink.  Just like #1 it’s stacking the deck against your next spell.I’d add in to these two that your FAI is restored to its maximum upon the completion of the daily ceremony of devotion.  What better time to have your Faith Renewed, eh?   Alright, having taken a look at the Sor’s spells/day list I see why you’re using 18th level as your ref. point for L9 spells.  According to RAW the Sor gets L9 spells ar 18th level (he gets, specifically, 3 of them).  Interesting that it goes from zero L9 spells to three L9 spells.  And given that the Sor in This system doesn’t have a set number of them he gets ay 18th level, I’d venture to guess that the Sor might be aimed to be managing L9 spells at about 15th-17th level.  I’d say I would aim to have him trying them at 15th level.   Of course they don’t.  I surely imagine my name being cursed in the blackest of ways every time a casting check gets blown, and wishes of god-awful atrocities to befall my progeny.  Hehe  she-ite happens though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />     And, I think in this case – at least partially – what you’re talking about is trying to safeguard against either powergaming or munchkinizing, and that’s not really something you can do.  You can Try, yes you can…  but at the end of the day any group with a suitably-determined player armed with a group and DM who will let him do it will eventually break and abuse your system to make himself more powerful than you intended him to become.  :/     That said, don’t take that to mean I’m not up for trying.  Just keep in mind that most everything after the original post is coming off of the top of my head.  And I don’t do precise mechanics off the top of my head…  I do conceptual work off the top of my head and try to hammer out the precise mechanics later. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />    Like I said, the Munchin L18 Sor is his DM’s problem.  I can’t fix him.  The Exceptional L18 Sor?  Now him I’m interested in.  Not so much to chain him, mind you, but because he interests me.   One of the design philosophies I picked up many years ago is “Life isn’t fair, and everyone is NOT created equal”.  Some characters ARE better than others.  If an average L18 Sor can manage to cast a L9 spell with reasonable chances, then an exceptional one should be able to do so with excellent chances.  That just follows logically to me.</blockquote>

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