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As a Player, why do you play in games you haven't bought into?
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<blockquote data-quote="Raunalyn" data-source="post: 8122223" data-attributes="member: 72670"><p>The GM didn't present any hooks until session zero. The hooks he presented were generic, as is what usually happens in an adventure path.</p><p></p><p>Not overselling. As I said, he had full power to veto any character idea or concept at that time. He was aware of what we were discussing, and he was aware of what we were creating. He had input and was part of the conversation, which is pretty much what happens during session zero.</p><p></p><p>5 players created characters before session zero...strange that all 5 of us did this, isn't it? They weren't "ignoring" the DM purposely, which is what your argument (and, frankly, Hussar's argument) seems to imply (if this isn't what you are saying, feel free to correct me). So what, we all ignored him just to tick him off? No. The likely scenario is one of the two I mentioned; he didn't communicate it as well as he thought he did (i.e. a soft requirement versus a hard requirement), or this is something we have always done, and people were willing to change things if necessary during session zero. I am not claiming a moral high ground; I am providing a different perspective.</p><p></p><p>Uhhh...that was what he gave us to work with. The mini-game was generic connections to townsfolk and had few or no personal connections. So yeah...I came up with something that tied me to the town and to another character while providing me a reason to adventure. That is plenty for someone to start making connections, and would have likely, if I had continued play, developed further.</p><p></p><p>He must have, because he said he could work with it and approved it.</p><p></p><p>We've played together for years. We have played together in other campaigns, and I have run him through several campaigns of my own. My personal issues with him aside, I enjoyed playing with him. And I am pretty sure he would agree that when I was playing as a PC, I was very much what I mentioned. He apologized for his statements earlier where it seemed that he was placing all of the blame on the players, and if it seems like I was placing the blame on him, then I also apologize. The problem here is that you weren't getting the complete story, which is why I interjected.</p><p></p><p>I believe the results of this scenario would have been very similar if we had waited until session zero to create characters. The mini-game was generic (not [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER]'s fault), it didn't control any aspect of character generation other than possibly background. All it did was tie characters to each other and to the setting, all which can be done with any character regardless of whether or not they were generated pre-session zero or during. There is nothing in the scenario you outlined that cannot be done with first level characters whether or not they are partially generated or completely finalized.</p><p></p><p>[USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] summed it up perfectly here:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raunalyn, post: 8122223, member: 72670"] The GM didn't present any hooks until session zero. The hooks he presented were generic, as is what usually happens in an adventure path. Not overselling. As I said, he had full power to veto any character idea or concept at that time. He was aware of what we were discussing, and he was aware of what we were creating. He had input and was part of the conversation, which is pretty much what happens during session zero. 5 players created characters before session zero...strange that all 5 of us did this, isn't it? They weren't "ignoring" the DM purposely, which is what your argument (and, frankly, Hussar's argument) seems to imply (if this isn't what you are saying, feel free to correct me). So what, we all ignored him just to tick him off? No. The likely scenario is one of the two I mentioned; he didn't communicate it as well as he thought he did (i.e. a soft requirement versus a hard requirement), or this is something we have always done, and people were willing to change things if necessary during session zero. I am not claiming a moral high ground; I am providing a different perspective. Uhhh...that was what he gave us to work with. The mini-game was generic connections to townsfolk and had few or no personal connections. So yeah...I came up with something that tied me to the town and to another character while providing me a reason to adventure. That is plenty for someone to start making connections, and would have likely, if I had continued play, developed further. He must have, because he said he could work with it and approved it. We've played together for years. We have played together in other campaigns, and I have run him through several campaigns of my own. My personal issues with him aside, I enjoyed playing with him. And I am pretty sure he would agree that when I was playing as a PC, I was very much what I mentioned. He apologized for his statements earlier where it seemed that he was placing all of the blame on the players, and if it seems like I was placing the blame on him, then I also apologize. The problem here is that you weren't getting the complete story, which is why I interjected. I believe the results of this scenario would have been very similar if we had waited until session zero to create characters. The mini-game was generic (not [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER]'s fault), it didn't control any aspect of character generation other than possibly background. All it did was tie characters to each other and to the setting, all which can be done with any character regardless of whether or not they were generated pre-session zero or during. There is nothing in the scenario you outlined that cannot be done with first level characters whether or not they are partially generated or completely finalized. [USER=6801228]@Chaosmancer[/USER] summed it up perfectly here: [/QUOTE]
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