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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DM_Blake" data-source="post: 4422017" data-attributes="member: 57267">I don't remember seeing if 4e had rules for perception penalties over distance.   I know 3.5 had those rules. Sometimes, it's nice to just chuck those rules out the window though.  For example, I think 3.5 rule said -1 to listen or spot for every 10 feet. So, theoretically, if you could spot a hair lying on a table directly in front of you with a DC 20 spot, then standing a hundred feet away means you could see that same hair with a DC 30 spot - which seems rather impossible to me. It's very hard to see a hair lying on a table from more than a few feet away. Given that many traps are cleverly concealed, only visible as hair-thin seams around a pressure point, or tiny pin-hole sized vents for expelling gas, it seems the same logic applies. If you are more than a few feet away from the visible signs of the trap, then it should be impossible to see. Which falls in line with what jtrowell said. A ranger with great perception who is 5th in line of a group of adventurers will never see the seams of the pressure plate in time to keep the fighter (in front) from stepping on it. Put the perceptive guy right behind that fighter, and he might be close enough, but now the fighter gives some cover to the trap, so we should consider modifying the perception roll according to cover rules.  At least, this seems to make sense to me.</blockquote>