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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5096396" data-attributes="member: 20805">That is my point, and the reason I brought up anecdotal evidence in this discussion. The OP and others are continually stating 'Expertise is a feat tax and if you dont take it your character will suck' I wanted to voice that this is not always the case and other GMs/Players reading this thread should consider that perhaps the loud cries of SUCKAGE should be evaluated based on thier own play style and group dynamics.And Nifft,  your right. My bad for slipping that roll-vs-role comment. I understand that optimized does not equal lack of roleplaying, as well as the reverse. But, how about this. Instead of throwing foes with high ACs to challenge the fighter, and thereby frustrate the cleric... base the monsters defense on the mid-ground and let the fighter enjoy being an expert at hitting things while the cleric can still be effective. Look for other ways to challenge them other than having them miss.  What I learned in 2e with skill checks is to design encounters that have targets set for the mediocre characters skills, enabling the focused characters to shine... then set it up so that the entire group has to succeed, not just one character. I follow the same conceit with 4e combat. So what if the party steam-rolls over an encounter or two. Encounter balance is much more than just to hit numbers and DPR. And my group has done 5 to 7 encounters in an encounter day, but that took some tight planning on my part and the group was very low on resources by the time it was done. Flip side... 3 healers makes a much more survivable group. {Bard, Cleric, and Paladin}  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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