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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 8214553" data-attributes="member: 6788736">3.5 lead to some really toxic play, where people played (and endlessly debated) 'builds' and not characters. The game itself became more of a side event to the required level of system mastery required to know your splatbooks inside out, and how to build some PC reliant on feats and PrCs from dozens of splatbooks that was busted next to most 'core' classes. You also needed to be able to spot 'trap' options. 'Tiers' emerged, and optimisation was the key word of the edition.I loved it, and so did others. It sold like candy. Not despite it being busted to all hell, but because it was busted to all hell. You could create some Frankenstein monster of a PC and gloat at your system mastery to newbs.Then 4E came out and everything went to naughty word. Tons of people used to the optimisation merry go round (and not liking the radical new direction of 4E) jumped ship to Pathfinder.Pathfinder of course suffered the exact same fate of splat, bloat and insane amounts of system mastery of 3.5 needed to create an 'optimal' PC, with making a foolish decision like playing a class presented to you in the CRB (Monk, Rogue, Fighter) itself being a trap, with you only finding out when played next to an optimized PC.4E achieved its goal of attracting the 'WOW' type of new gamer, but it also alienated a large portion of its predecessors fan base, and fractured the gaming community, with the defectors all heading over to Pathfinnder. Accordingly for the first time in history, an RPG that was NOT DnD (Pathfinder), became the top seller, overtaking DnD in sales.5E came out with the express stated goal of being a game for everyone, and to 'unite' the fractured fan base. It's succeeded remarkably well in that goal, plus also tapping into and creating a zeitgeist where its not only re-unified the base that fractured during the so called 'edition wars' but also dragging in a whole swathe of new players who are 'non traditional' gamers.Meanwhile Pathfinder rebooted witth PF2, ironically (and remarkably) copying many of the same mistakes 4E did with keyword soup, sameness, and items, monsters and DC's that scaled as the PCs did, arguably also contributing to the popularity of 5E.I now look back at my love of 3.5 and Pathfinder with abject horror, and also look back on the edition wars with a sense of relief that they're over (they were really bad).5E isnt perfect, and like it or hate it, it succeeded in its goal to re-unify the fractured fan base (arguably helped by PF2's lukewarm introduction) with tables featuring relatively happy players of 1, 2, 3, and 4 Ed (and Pathfinder) all working together.There is friction (the 3E guys and Pathfinder dudes dont see enough optimization or options, the Grognards of 1 and 2E see too much optimization and still rail at evil Paladins, and spellcasting dwarves, the 4E guys seem to appreciate the short/long rest mechanics mirroring the AEDU system etc). It's got enough to keep everyone mostly happy however, and playing off the same sheet of music.For mine it's the best edition yet. Best balanced, best supported, easiest to learn while retaining sufficient complexity etc. Not perfect, and there are things I would change, but it is what it is.</blockquote>

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