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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 8214638" data-attributes="member: 6788736">Tome of Battle (and SWSE) had me really excited for what 4E was going to be. I kept hearing from the devs that they were the basis for the new edition, and I loved both of those games/ sourcebooks and the 'per encounter' manouver system.Then 4E came out, and it just was miles off what I was expecting. Too radically different, too samey and the even more radical fluff changes were just too much.I appreciate what they were trying to do, and if it was its own game (and not DnD) I might have appreciated it more.I guess I was thrown (as a guy who's been playing since 1980) by the fact that DnD was always the 'old faithful fallback' you could play other systems around. It just didnt feel like DnD anymore.Of course, I was still caught up in the optimisation minigame of 3.P so Pathfinder instantly appealed as well (I shudder at that verson of me as a player).That was just my personal take, and everyone is different I guess.</blockquote>