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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Serge" data-source="post: 182549" data-attributes="member: 4049">I don't think this is an entirely assessment of A Guide to Hell.  If you stop to consider what this text is about, you will notice two things.  First, it concentrates on Asmodeus and the Nine Hells.  Second, it treats the entire idea of his background as a myth.In the first case, the backstory Pramas offers does indeed limit itself to Ahriman and Jazirian (yuck).  This is because this is there story.  It does not discuss the forces of Chaos or Balance because, in the excerpt we "mortals" are privy to, such matters are not especially relavent.  Furthermore, the book does not state in any sense that Ahriman and Jazirian created the Cosmos.  They set standards for it in order to reduce the impact of Chaos and to ignore the need for Balance.  They do not create mortals, nor do they create the other gods.  They simply establish the "Cosmic rules" that continue (if you're into the tail end of Planescape) to have an impact on Creation.  They are opposed to Chaos (this is explicitly stated in the text), but (being Lawful) they are rigid in their own ideas, and thereby they do battle and one Falls while the other Ascends.  There is nothing remotely dualistic or monotheistic about this.The second premise, the mythology of he concept, is clear.  Pramas takes a number of cosmologies (and I do have to lean in the direction that these were likely dualistic), makes adjustments to them (to fit into the super polytheism of D&D), and presents them to us.  They maintain some clear mythological elements, like the world serpent idea, the suggestion that there is an afterlife, and so on.  This does not mean that the concept is Dualistic.I hear what you're saying and, while I recognize the dilemma this could cause some, I don't see a problem with this.  If Jazirian and Asmodeus established some of the Laws that govern creation and these Laws were removed, I don't see how this could be a problem.  I would have no problem whatsoever if someone came up with the idea that by uniting all of the Demon Princes into one being, an act of utter Law, all of Creation would come to an end.  I see this as one of many possible Apocalypse-concepts that is prevalent in many mythologies (including Christianity).  True, Pramas does not provide the reader with any other alternatives to Asmodeus being the end of Creation, but again, A Guide to Hell is not about anyone else other than Asmodeus and the Nine Hells.  It doesn't even address how Jazirian could stop Asmodeus (an oversight, I think...).As for his being a personification of unbelief...  Again, I don't see this as a problem because his act of consuming the souls of those who do not believe in anything makes perfect sense.  The lack of belief in a huge cosmology would be among the ultimate acts of Chaos.  And, among the most evil and logical ways to deal with those would be for them to be consumed for their obstinance.  Asmodeus makes sense in that regard.  He found a loop-hole, if you will, that allows him to plug up an act of chaotic faithlessness.My world also has its evil gods and its overarching adversary.... but that's just my world.  I see my world as one among many different worlds above which there are the different realities detailed in MotP.  Asmodeus is the ultimate, personified form of Lawful Evil in my world, just as Corelleon is the God of Elves in my world, just as there's a Plane of Air in my world.  That's one of the things I did like about Planescape:  it recognized that all of these entities existed and could interact with each other beyond just their own Prime.  So, in my world, while I have a good number of evil gods, Asmodeus is still a threat... but a minor one since there are so many mortals to go around and since most mortals will worship or at least pay lip-service to one god or another.Furthermore, in my campaign, there are overarching ideals that exist that far supercede gods and even overgods.  There's an entity of Life that simply creates.  There are some gods that draw on this entity (sort of like proxies).  I see Asmodeus (and Primus, and The Lady, and others) in a similar vein.  They are the perfect manifestations of Law(good, evil and neutral) or True Balance.  Just as Hell exists in many Prime worlds, so too does Asmodeus exist which puts him above and beyond my evil gods (fortunately, he's trapped, so my gods don't worry about him much).   When perceived in this manner, there's nothing here that distrupts the Great Wheel concept.</blockquote>

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