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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pramas" data-source="post: 183037" data-attributes="member: 995">I would suggest that you and anyone else still following this debate actually go back and read what I wrote in Guide to Hell. The Jazirian/Ahriman story is not just about good and evil. Their conflict is, in fact, only the climax of the story. The important point that seems to be getting lost here is that Jazirian and Ahriman act as champions of law first, sending their coils out into the primal chaos and defining the Great Wheel. Only later do they fall out. So you see this story is about the conflict of law and chaos, and good and evil. It thus not "rigidly dualistic." Folks should also note that nowhere do I say that Asmodeus is the father of all evil or anything even remotely like that. Father of the baatezu race, yes. Source of all evil, no.The whole Jazirian/Ahriman myth is an origin story for the Great Wheel. It tells you how it was defined, why it looks the way it does, and how many of the laws defined in Planescape came to be. Since this story explains the unity of rings, the law of threes, and the lack of a center to the multiverse, I find your assertation that this story doesn't mesh with the Great Wheel to be unconvincing. [/B]</blockquote>It seems logical to me that in a dualistic system predicated upon two opposing Lawful beings, planes like Limbo, Pandemonnium, Ysgard, the Abyss, etc. would most likely not have emerged, subordinate as their resident powers would have been to the (Lawful) Overpowers (Jazirian and Ahriman, in this case) which originally defined (through intention or incident) the cosmology. [/B][/QUOTE]Again, go read Guide to Hell. You'll note that the planes (save the Outlands) were already in existance before the rise of Jazirian and Ahriman. The story explains how it was their ouroboros that defined the Outlands and how the other planes fell in around the it, thus creating the Great Ring. In so doing they tied up a great deal of the personal power, which is why both have been eclipsed by the dominant pantheons. I should also note that even if Asmodeus breaks out the Pit and tries to trigger Armageddon, there's no guarantee that he'd actually succeed. I could envision an epic campaign that plays through that whole story. And if Asmodeus was defeated and cast back into Hell, all would be as it was with the Great Wheel.[/QUOTE]

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