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Message: <blockquote data-quote="unan oranis" data-source="post: 4214519" data-attributes="member: 65462">Sounds like a good battle.  But you make a special note that there were *only* 3 full round attacks, so you seem to be agreeing with the OP that a toe to toe clobberfest can get stale, and the solution is dynamic enviroments/scenerios/maneuvers with increased emphasis on mobility and tactics.3e makes that job easier than 2e for reasons that are self evident.  You have in no way refuted the OP's claim that 4e will be even more condusive to that kind of combat.  If it is, deal breaker.At epic level play your need to wing it increases ten-fold, and at the same time when the party gets hit with a 1000 damage point lightning bolt the players are going to want to make sure their enemies are playing by the same rules they are.Even with software to do all the simple math at the speed of light, and clicking through rapidly, it takes way too long to generate an epic level multiclass templated uber whomever, fully statted and equiped.  Never mind 7 of them, on the fly, and they had 2 rounds to prepare for the battle.  Even tweaking a given stat block, you come across the unavoidable drag of unique spell lists, unique tactics, unique magic items, assorted variations of buffs and at least swapping around a few different combat feat trees for the npc warriors.For many dm's without the time there is no option but to fudge it, commit to the numbers and then play it out.  I've made a spell list generator, buff templates, a magic item combo generator, a tactics scrambler and so on, but it still takes a minute to throw it all together.4e claims to have factored these issues into the design.  For people who dont quit at epic levels (that trend speaks volumes) this issue is a big selling point for 4e.Again, if this is true, deal breaker.I had a good time with basic, 1e and 2e, but I'd never play them again vs 3e.  I'm pretty sure I'll never go back to 3e once 4e is in play.  After seeing the orc pdf, I went out and placed my pre-order.If you really are sticking with 3e I've got a lot of books for sale.--unan</blockquote>

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