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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5326019" data-attributes="member: 87792">Of course <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Pedant: Poison resevoir in the blowgun.d6 -> 3.5 on average.  d12 -> 6.5.   ~3 rather than 2.5.  (Rapier and longsword are both d8, meaning 2 for each of them - still nice for a feat).  To me the part that matters is that they make the Kukri attack irrelevant.  Either you can charge for a [2*d6] attack with a kukri having gone to the trouble to use one of your scarce At Wills, or you can charge for a [d12, Brutal 2] with an executioner's axe with the same to hit score, more average damage, and a much better melee basic attack the rest of the time.Depends.  Because the first strike without warning matters...My Bravura Warlord carries his dynamic longsword round his wrist as a garrote most of the time (and his summoned scale armour ... elsewhere).  And once steel is drawn and the fight is on, subtlety loses to speed of assassination.  People are already alerted by the clash of sword on sword, and the best way you can alert as few people as possible is to make it as fast as possible.Also as an adventurer I expect to walk around with people armed to the teeth.  There's a running joke in one of my groups where my Monk takes the focus fire because he looks suspicious because he's not heavily armed or armoured.  (Which suits me - he's got the best defences in the party and is planning to learn to snatch arrows out of the air).  To blend in you want beaten looking armour and some sort of decent  weapon - not having obvious ones in that sort of group is, of itself,  suspicious.  Missions where the sort of stealth that requires no obvious weapons are the exception rather than the rule.Encounter long first level poisons can be applied to e.g. rapiers which are already doing an average of 2 more damage (meaning that even if you lose the thrown attacks but mostly use melee you're ahead).  Or applied to a magic shuriken that returns and can be used with a highly mobile [2w] attack if you're a ranged assassin.  And slow in melee won't matter half as much as slow at range.  A dagger is a weird weapon for a primary weapon.  With good real world reason (it's too short to be effective normally) and in game mathematical support (d4).  And therefore should be treated as such.And as I said, one of the best things an assassin can do is not look like an assassin.  Someone walking round with a group of people in scale armour with large shields and carrying only daggers?  Rogue or assassin.  Or Warlock.  Either way, watch him.  He's an unknown quantity.  Someone wearing battered leather armour and carrying a great big weapon?  He's what you expect.  Yes, he needs watching.  But not special attention.  (And if he's hiding, who cares anyway? - if necessary he can also ask the fighter to hold his fullblade for him before going into a situation where he needs to not look like an adventurer.)To use an analogy, your approach to assassin weapons for adventurers appears to resemble trying to use desert camoflague in the jungle.Thanks.My math is off because I'd missed that you got the d6+weapon bonus to a spear grab.But with the garroteFirst attack: 2d4 + d6 + stat + itemSustain: 2d4 + d6 + stat + itemWith the spear:First attack: d6+itemSustain: 6 [W] + 6 [bonus] + stat + item + item *d6Assuming level 3, +1 item, stat 18:Garrote: 5 + 3.5 + 4 + 1 = 14.5 dprJavelin: 4.5 damage round 1, 20.5 damage round 2.  = 25 vs 29Throw in 2d10 vs 20 for the encounter powers and yes, it becomes 45 vs 40 and the spear does take the lead.  Slightly.  (I gave it 4.5 less damage in my previous simulation because I didn't realise you got the weapon talent bonus).On the other hand, the way to get maximum mileage out of the attack is to assume the Executioner's Axe is well named.Sustain: 12 [W] + 7.5 (high crit d12 Brutal 2) + 6 (bonus) + 4 (stat) + 1 (item) + 3.5 (high crit if you aren't going e.g. Vicious) = 34 (54 with the encounter power.)  I'd still rather have the garrote I think.If.  There's a pretty high payoff to it, granted.  But honestly until you hit level 7 even on a successful attempt it's doing no better than the garrote unless you unleash something like a fullblade to help.  And the edge at level 7 is only changed by 4.5 (Assassins Strike change) + 3.5 (crit weapon) - 1 (stat bump) = 7Some, granted. That's what I thought, thanks.  It just could be read that it delays you being unhidden rather than prevents you being unhidden as long as you go back into cover by the end of the turn.  Slingshotting round guard posts is useful for an assassin.  As is move - silent stalker to noble.  Minor - apply poison to food, drink, or jewelry in front of them.  Move - back into cover having never become unhidden.I liked them for that reason.  I would, however, include a note in the final version saying that this isn't essential and that many assassins are self-taught but even in these cases they normally follow one of the regular paths.  Just make a little more explicit what you are doing.Edit: If that seemed overly critical, sorry.  I just have a very mathematical mind at times - and a sneaky one at others.  I love the core of the class (my favourite assassin in pretty much any RPG and really want to play one).  I'm just trying to help polish it a little.</blockquote>

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