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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 6675412" data-attributes="member: 6787503">Quite right. The fiction that initiative represents should most probably be seen as the relative reaction speed of the participants. The assassin and his target make a contested dexterity check to see who's more on the ball. In a normal, non-surprise situation this would result in the participant with the higher roll getting to move and act first. When I said that initiative order doesn't exist in the fiction, I was talking about the participants taking discrete turns, and the illusion that one turn ends before another begins. But you are correct in pointing out that initiative does indeed represent something in the fiction.Assuming the target is surprised at the beginning of the encounter, a higher initiative roll simply means that the target is too quick in reacting to the assassin's attack for Assassinate to work. This is represented by the target no longer being surprised, meaning that she can react normally. Of course, the assassin would still get advantage from being unseen and would only miss out on the critical damage.I'm assuming that the target neither sees the assassin nor has any premonition about the coming attack. The target is surprised and on her turn her actions and movement are denied to her to simulate this lack of knowledge. When the assassin strikes, however, the target's higher dexterity check and the result that she is no longer surprised represent her ability to react normally to the attack. I didn't say she would get to act, by which I assume you mean move and take actions on her turn. The premise is that she's surprised on her turn. She avoids being Assassinated when the assassin makes the attack, on his turn. At that point she is no longer surprised due to her relatively quicker reaction time.Perhaps that would be a good subject for a poll.It seems to simulate the fiction of a Rogue, that relies on stealth, being successful when he is also quick. Since Dexterity is the Rogue's primary ability, I'm not sure what the problem is with his success being tied to that ability, unless you also want him to be successful when he uses that ability poorly. I understand that he has already successfully used his Dexterity, and skill with Stealth, to hide, but for the assassin to get the benefit of Assassinate he must strike quickly.What has been spelled out, both in the rules and in this thread, is that the surprised creature takes a turn in which it is unable to move or act. There is no "seems" about it.</blockquote>

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