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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 6678994" data-attributes="member: 6799649">Heh. It's the same rule!If you are 'surprised', certain game mechanics are modified. But what if you are 'not surprised'? What special modifiers apply? None, because 'not surprised' is the default state of creatures in combat. The rules don't need to say, "When you are not surprised, don't use the 'surprised' modifiers"!The upshot is that, RAW, you are either 'surprised' or not. The 'surprise' switch is either On or Off.Therefore, the rule that says, "You are surprised if you do not notice a threat" is ALSO saying that if you do notice a threat then you are not surprised!The DM determines if a creature is surprised. This, by definition, means that if he doesn't determine that you are surprised then he has effectively decided that you are not surprised. The DM determines this, and by default this means that he decides the period for which you are surprised, therefore deciding when that state ends for any creature.And his determination is based on whether or not a creature notices a threat. The two things exist (or not) at the same time. If you don't notice an existing threat, then you are surprised. As soon as you notice a threat, you are not surprised.This is the unavoidable consequence of the RAW statements of 'the DM determines if a character or monster is surprised' and 'a creature that doesn't notice a threat is surprised'.The consequence of the RAW is that when you notice a threat you are not surprised. If you rule that being stabbed in the throat makes you aware that there is a threat...I'd agree.My assertions are a consequence of the rules.</blockquote>

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