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<blockquote data-quote="Paraxis" data-source="post: 6681402" data-attributes="member: 13009">If there isn't an attack why was initiative asked for?&nbsp; If initiative is called for yes the unsuspecting party is no longer surprised after their first turn, those are the rules.&nbsp; This scenario seems to be a failing of the DM not the system. Combat ends when the fighting stops.&nbsp; &quot;Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops.&quot;As a DM it is your call as to when that happens, you might start a chase scene, you might keep turn by turn initiative going, you might resolve it with a single skill check, or hand wave the escape, whatever works best for your game. But this is talking about how the end of combat is vague, and that is not what was is debate here, you talked about how the start of combat was vague.This should be handled just like the DM decides to handle these situations for NPC's, as above it can be handled in a variety of ways, but this has nothing to do with &quot;The text surrounding what dictates the beginning of combat is extremely vague&quot;, the opening of combat is not vague at all, when it ends is a little vague but the guideline is &quot;when the fighting stops&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Paraxis, post: 6681402, member: 13009"] If there isn't an attack why was initiative asked for? If initiative is called for yes the unsuspecting party is no longer surprised after their first turn, those are the rules. This scenario seems to be a failing of the DM not the system. Combat ends when the fighting stops. "Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops." As a DM it is your call as to when that happens, you might start a chase scene, you might keep turn by turn initiative going, you might resolve it with a single skill check, or hand wave the escape, whatever works best for your game. But this is talking about how the end of combat is vague, and that is not what was is debate here, you talked about how the start of combat was vague. This should be handled just like the DM decides to handle these situations for NPC's, as above it can be handled in a variety of ways, but this has nothing to do with "The text surrounding what dictates the beginning of combat is extremely vague", the opening of combat is not vague at all, when it ends is a little vague but the guideline is "when the fighting stops". [/QUOTE]

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