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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6685328" data-attributes="member: 2067">It's not worse. In fact, it's better - enemies can't detect you visually at all. They auto-fail any checks to see you or what you're doing. They cannot see you at all.It's just that this doesn't mean they're not aware of you.One way to parse it: a Stealth check does not represent you trying to be unseen. Stealth doesn't affect who can see you. In old-school D&D terms, Stealth is like a Move Silently check, NOT a Hide in Shadows check. There is no "Hide in Shadows." You're either seen, or not. Stealth is a check to remain unnoticed. Invisibility automatically means you can't be seen, but being unseen doesn't mean they don't know you're there.If you turn invisible and run up behind a ficus and try to hide, there is no chance whatsoever of you being seen. There is a chance that you bump the ficus or that an enemy hears your footsteps or that a dog smells you. A Cloak of Elvenkind might help that because it cushions your movement, softens your footfalls. Invisibility doesn't help with that because all it does is make you invisible. If you bump a ficus (blow a Stealth check), you'll still be invisible, you just won't be hidden. Again, two separate axes.Dim light gives disadvantage on Perception checks "that rely on sight."Can Be Seen | Can Be NoticedNormal: Yes | YesNormal + Stealth: Yes | No (which is why this situation isn't something the RAW really allows for, IIRC)Dim Light/Cover: Maybe | YesDim Light + Stealth: Maybe | NoDarkness/Invis: No | YesDarkness + Stealth: No | NoIt's a prerequisite to "cannot be noticed" that you also "cannot be seen," but there's no check involved in being seen or not, merely in being noticed.</blockquote>

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