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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6695629" data-attributes="member: 67338">I have already disagreed with this up thread and I will again...I'll do you one better, forget before... how about I think you can have a fight with NO INITATIVE ROLL at all...Example 1: The 6th level fighter with his +2 volcanic axe (deals 2w of damage but it's all fire damage) gets mind controlled to kill the mayor... the mayor is a book stat noble...the player walks up behind him and yells "Hey Jon," and when he turns he says he swings with power attack... the entire fight is 1 roll "Just see if you hit him, or if you roll a 1"Example 2: High level NPC with a 23 AC normally, and the ability to parry for +4 once per round as a reaction... PC at 3rd level picks a fight with him and declairs "I swing with my knife and hit a 17..." I say "Pink, his armor holds and he laughs drawing his thin arming sword, he tells you he doesn't want to hurt you so just go away" since I have no intention of attacking back, I don't call for iniative at all... if he wants to swing again then roll... but he can just keep trying until he tires, SIr Gavon isn't fighting back... Yup... that's the long and short of it, if I as the DM feel that there is nothing the victim can do about it then dice don't need to be rolled.... ok, so in a situation where speed and reaction matter, we roll initative, I agree there, I just disagree on when it matters... yes, and my way does, if you plan it so there is no last minute clue, no roll needed... just like I don't make my players roll 2d12+17 against a target with 9hp... the roll is meaningless... the rule is "It's up to the DM"correct, so when My PC is invisable in a crowded street and the NPC has no reason to suspect someone is there, they are surprised and the the PC gets to use Assasinate, no rolls...(well roll to hit and roll for damage)And if I would get surprise if I attacked in round one, but I don't attack until round 15, if I still am hidden I am still surprising you...I thought this edition was about rulings not rules?</blockquote>

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