Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 6697957" data-attributes="member: 71699">Meaning that the RAW is literally ignored.So in your version of surprise, if an unnoticed rogue using a melee weapon wins initiative and moves and attacks, he loses the benefit of surprise for his attack because he is noticed when he moves. He won't be able to auto crit his target even though the encounter started with him surprising his target and he beat their initiative. Strangely, his target still suffers the other effects of your surprise even though they are no longer surprised, because those were "instantaneously" launched. Contrasting the two versions is very revealing. Surprise version 1 contains mechanical oddities and redundancies, and contorts the RAW to fit a pre-conceived narrative. Far from applying only at the start of the encounter (RAW) it can apply right up to the end (your RAI). The other (my) version's main failing is that it doesn't fit some DM's pre-conceived narratives. It relies more upon the idea of being caught absolutely flat-footed (unable to react). It concedes a benefit to speed (advantage) and a benefit to speed + suprise (advantage + crit). I'll repeat both versions here for clarity.Surprise version 1 (Arial's version)Applied when "not noticing a threat" and ends upon "noticing a threat". Upon first being applied it launches two delay effects. The first delays reactions until the end of a combatant's first turn. The second delays actions until the start of a combatant's second turn. Until it ends, surprise version 1 acts as a handshake for other effects. For avoidance of doubt, ending surprise version 1 does not end the delay effects.Surprise version 2 (vonklaude's version)Applied when "not noticing a threat" and ended at the end of a combatant's first turn. While active, surprise version 2 prevents actions and reactions and acts as a handshake for other effects. Ending surprise version 2 ends all its effects.</blockquote>

Verification