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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WandOfOrcus" data-source="post: 6767426" data-attributes="member: 6805384">I joined this site just to make this comment.  That is how asinine this rule is.  RAW and supported by Mearles leads to this:  I'm a highly dexterous lore bard, walking and whistling a merry tune down a road.  Not a care in the world nor a reason to be on guard for anything (low wisdom).  Up ahead, two assassins are hiding up in the trees.  Both have been hired to kill me (something about the King's daughter).  Neither knows about the other.  One of them feels they have a good shot lined up and decides to shoot.  Begin Combat!  Everyone rolls initiative.  There are three basic combinations that can occur:  I go first and the assassins go after me; An assassin goes before and after me; Both assassins go before me.  I'll examine what happens for each basic situation.I go first:  While there is definitely a hostile situation brewing, I have no idea it exists.  But the rules do.  So even though I'm walking along and whistling as I go, I stop.  I can't move while surprised (which I am) or take actions (whistling is practicing for a Performance so I'm ruling it is an action).  SOMEHOW my ability to whistle and walk is suspended, for no apparent reason.  After six seconds of this pass, I can start taking reactions, to what, who knows?  The assassins no longer have surprise on me and don't get advantage or auto-crits on hits.  Boo-hoo for them, good for me.  I now have to wait for 12 additional seconds before I can move or whistle.  Wow.I go second:  One assassin gets advantage on his/her attack and auto-crits if he/she hits.  That's what assassins should do.  I get hit (I'm assuming) and take massive assassin damage.  This takes six seconds that I can't move or whistle during, but I can get hit.  I can't do something I want to do but I can do something I'd rather not do (whistle/get hit).  This is followed by six seconds on "my turn" that I can't walk or whistle (I've given up on walking a whistling at this point as it apparently attracts arrows).  Then, I get to wait six more seconds to do anything except react to the fact I've been shot.  I can't healing word myself, but I can stare and scream at the bolt embedded in my spleen.I go last:  As you may have noticed, in each scenario my bard spends the first 18 seconds of combat not walking or whistling.  No magic holding me.  Maybe not even an arrow/bolt sticking through my leg and/or throat to stop me.  Rules stopped me, because, reasons.  In this case, I have a better than average shot at being dead before I ever figure out why I can't walk and whistle.  Or not.  Doesn't really matter I don't get to walk and whistle.  Period.Now, let's take this trek into absurdity one step farther:  20 assassins.  Doesn't matter what the case break down is, I spend up to 126 seconds not walking or whistling.  Over two minutes.  The game rule equivalent of a stroke.  Doesn't matter if or how often I get hit.  I lost bodily control for two minutes for no other reason than:  rules.This is why at my table a surprise round is handled separate from combat.  Only non-surprised "combatants" roll initiative, and only if needed.  Combat doesn't start until one or more adversaries notice the threat.  Shoot at a surprised hostile and miss?  Percentile chance they didn't notice.  Does this mean an assassin can assassinate a target and move over to that target's sleeping companion and do it again?  Yep, sure does.  Is that any lamer than the sleeping target rules aware of combat starting while in a slumber and rolling initiative?  Don't think so.Look, if disagreeing with rules and rulings was as taboo as some have made it out to be, there wouldn't be a 2nd - 5th editions to this game.  Use some damn common sense and play this how works best for your table.  Have a (gasp) discussion about how assassinate should work.  Vote if you need to or DM call it as required.  Just be open and honest from the beginning.  And, maybe more importantly than anything discussed, if you as a DM or you as a player have agreed with the other parties playing on how assassinate works, don't change it.  Ever.  This is the type of rule that can really piss people off.  "I didn't take Assassin because you wanted RAW and RAI from Mearles but you just assassinated our party cleric because of an undead horde you really want to run and we didn't get an initiative roll.  I call BS! (rage quit)."  I've seen it happen in other editions for less.</blockquote>

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