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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 2737507" data-attributes="member: 5890">DM: Which orc?Player: I don't care! Number 3!DM: OKPlayer: Ok, I roll a 15 <mumbles as he works out what ac that actually hits>DM: No, wait until you attack him.Player: I am attacking him.DM: No, he's too far away. I think. Let me work it out.......Right - because he's standing under an overhang, you have to switch to indoor movement, so you're too far away.Player a: I thought you said they jumped us out of the bushes?DM: Well, some did, but number 3 is archery supportPlayer a: Well I wouldn't be charging him then, would I?DM: I thought you might be going for a soft target.Player a: Well, I want to hit something - I go for the closest guy.DM: Ok, roll again. Oh, and remember you probably take some sort of AC penalty for charging, but I can't find the rule, so I'll say it's -10.Player a: <Grumbles> - 19! That's gotta be a hit!DM: Right, the orc stays up. The other 12 orcs standing next to him attack youPlayer a: The what? Another 12 orcs? Where'd they come from?DM: I told you, they jumped you out of the bushesPlayer a: I thought there was like 6!......Player b: I fireball all the orcsDM: Ok, you catch 2 of themPlayer b: But there's like 12 of them clustered around player a's corpse!DM: They moved after they each ripped off a chunk to eat laterPlayer b: so surely I can get more than 2?DM: NopePlayer b: ok, I fireball themDM: Ok, roll damage. Player b and player c - make saves. Against fireballPlayer b: What??Player c: What kind of save is a save against fireball?DM: I dunno. Rods and staves mebbe?Player b: Wait - how come I fireballed myself?DM: Overhang. You're on indoor rules. The fireball is twice as large as normal because it can't fill up the space that the ground takes up.Player c: I rolled a 20! Is that a success? Do I add anything?DM: I don't know - do saves go up or down with level?Player b: I think it's save against breath weapon. You might get your dex bonus, but I'm not sure.Frankly, if play goes like this, both players and DM are eithera) Newbiesb) MoronsEither would be just as discouraged at the mere act of trying to work out exactly what saving throw they have to make in a situation.</blockquote>

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