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Message: <blockquote data-quote="harmyn" data-source="post: 2739454" data-attributes="member: 13511">You gave good examples of ways to use CR/EL, just not repeating for space reasons. What I was referring to on that point though is that CR is flawed in presentation. The warrior vs. fighter option. 1 level more of warrior does not make them equal. The CRs of monsters simply don't balance them out. Not saying that its useless, but its not really any better than the old monster-xp-value as a guideline. They are just differing approaches to how to do the same thing and in my experience they both require the same amount of judgement call on the part of the DM. And so your saying that by skipping all the detailed RAW in the name of quick play and going off gut instinct in the new game is the better than skipping all the detailed RAW in the old game? your point of "3" in your list is the same as the DC target numbers you refer to in the above paragraph. And the difference in making it up when not covered and making it up when you don't feel like looking it up is the rules lawyer. They will look it up and site where you were wrong. As for memorizing charts and target #'s from frequent use, not a valid argument as players and DM's did the same thing in the old rules. And there are some screwy rules in the new books too. They are just worded and hidden in differing places.---------------------------Someone else commented that DC's should be different for each skill because some things are harder than others. Fair enough, but there should still be a formalized ranking instead of each skill being done individually. As an example I give you WEG's Dy system.Difficulty................Default Target #Very Easy......................5Easy............................10Moderate......................15Difficult........................20Very Difficult.................25Heroic..........................30GM decides difficulty of task and the player makes a roll. Each skill doesn't need their own guidelines for success and failure. Much easier.---------------------------------And please remember all, I am not advocating that the older editions are better, I am merely pointing out that the newest edition's systems are also just as flawed, they are just flawed in very different and new ways.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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