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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 8118292" data-attributes="member: 6689464">They are less than a quarter of the population. Or should be. Again, my beef isn't with point buy. My beef is with rolling methods that make these numbers higher.Someone with an IQ of 115 is at int 13. (Within a SD of the mean) Someone at IQ 125+ is in the 16+ range. I blame hyperbole, and well that is in part a failure of the system. But failing one quarter of the time is significantly better than failing about half the time, and that failing more than half the time. As for where I'm taking the numbers 25% versus 60%. Somewhere else you mentioned that achieving something 40% of the time wasn't the sign of an incompetent character, but that is still a character that fails something 60% of the time. You are claiming that by failing a quarter of the time someone isn't a born winner, but that failing 60% of the time (the same as achieving something 40% of the time) on something else is somehow a sign of competence and being very good (or at least beign good enough to not being incompetent/bad).  I don't remember how the character with six 18's came to be into this discussion, but to me the ubermen I'm talking about are characters consistently above average on every stat and with more than one score above the normal range (16+)That is why I mentioned sensitive to failure. It is a cognitive bias, you're biased to notice failure. (I didn't intend it as an insult, but an observation, sorry if it came that way). You are predisposed to notice failure, I'm predisposed to gloss over it. The failure rate of a 16+ is too low for me to notice, but once we are in an 8- I'm more likely to notice it. I'm not bothered by failing, but rather having so many failures and so many risks make things sweeter when I win at the end.  I was talking about the value of low stats, and how low stats produce experiences that high stats don't. And how these weaknesses count in ways that just roleplaying a weakness while remaining mechanically optimal don't.  I'm finding a lot of what I need. And I'm not with D&D out of loyalty, it is just the closest thing to what I look for. 13th age is a bit too mechanical for my tastes, PF left me behind in complexity long ago. Other games are too cinematic or edgy, or just lack the flavor of fantasy I want out of a game.I have had similar experiences. Except that instead of considering my rolls unfair related to others, I consider them too good to what I want to play. You yourself have said it, there aren't many chances to play, so every character has to be something you want to play. I want characters with mechanical weaknesses, not characters without them that I pretend they have.A 14 doesn't necessarily, mean special. A 16+ is, 16+ is beyond two s.d. And it isn't a straight multiply by six scenario. We solve this by a binomial calculation. 100%-4.21%= 95.79% and that to the sixth power. 77.25% of people won't have a single 16+ (the statistical outlier for high stats) . Though I concede, about 19% of normal people will have one 16+ This is a symptom of the system, you say a 75% success rate is too low for a good character doing something easy, I consider it too high for a character that is supposed to be bad at it. 40-45% failure is good enough for what I want. A bit under average, but mostly on the normal range.   In the end we don't come from places that are too far away from each other, we just have different biases and different power fantasies. But we overlap pretty well. I mean both of us like the control of point buy for character creation, we have a preference for strong concept, and both of us care about having accurate stats to back up our characters. Just like I share many preferences with say, [USER=6775031]@Saelorn[/USER], (we both have in common some pretty OSR preferences specially in regards to HP, healing and party dynamics) we just don't meet eye to eye on thematic/flavor stuff (I love a lot of modern flavor, multiclassing and cut my teeth at sorcerers, Saleorn thinks otherwise)</blockquote>

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