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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7105546" data-attributes="member: 22779">See, the thing is, the HP=Meat crowd doesn't agree with you.&nbsp; The point that is being made by that crowd is that HP loss is always a physical wound.&nbsp; That's what was lost in 5e.&nbsp; It can be, or it might not be.&nbsp; The rules don't actually tell you.&nbsp; Which means that HP =/= Meat.&nbsp; It might mean meat, or it might not.&nbsp; It's abstract.&nbsp; Describe it however you like, but, you cannot tell anyone else that they are wrong for describing it differently.&nbsp; Which means in the context of this thread, that many of the points being raised are based on a flawed understanding of what 5e says HP are.All you can actually say, with any certainty is that a successful attack caused you to lose HP.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; What that actually means in the game world is 100% up to the group/DM, not the rules.Which nicely opens the door for all sorts of goodies, like non-magical healing, non-attack damage, and, yup, damage on a miss.&nbsp; Because once you admit that HP are whatever the group wants them to be, then you don't really have any leg to stand on to argue against these things.&nbsp; Don't like them?&nbsp; Fine, don't use them.&nbsp; They conflict with your interpretation of HP?&nbsp; Fair enough, you don't have to use them.&nbsp; But, you don't get to hold up chapter and verse and tell everyone else that they are wrong for wanting these things.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7105546, member: 22779"] See, the thing is, the HP=Meat crowd doesn't agree with you. The point that is being made by that crowd is that HP loss is [u]always[/u] a physical wound. That's what was lost in 5e. It can be, or it might not be. The rules don't actually tell you. Which means that HP =/= Meat. It might mean meat, or it might not. It's abstract. Describe it however you like, but, you cannot tell anyone else that they are wrong for describing it differently. Which means in the context of this thread, that many of the points being raised are based on a flawed understanding of what 5e says HP are. All you can actually say, with any certainty is that a successful attack caused you to lose HP. That's it. What that actually means in the game world is 100% up to the group/DM, not the rules. Which nicely opens the door for all sorts of goodies, like non-magical healing, non-attack damage, and, yup, damage on a miss. Because once you admit that HP are whatever the group wants them to be, then you don't really have any leg to stand on to argue against these things. Don't like them? Fine, don't use them. They conflict with your interpretation of HP? Fair enough, you don't have to use them. But, you don't get to hold up chapter and verse and tell everyone else that they are wrong for wanting these things. [/QUOTE]

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