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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7338208" data-attributes="member: 6787503">The distinction in my games ends up being a choice between whether I call for a contest or not, and this choice is often based on audible distance. If an unseen stealthy creature (or group of creatures) is farther away than the distance quiet noise can travel (a distance between 10 and 60 feet, depending on conditions), then I don't call for a contest, and they remain unnoticed. It seems the difficulty some posters mention with groups succeeding on attempts to sneak past guards and similar situations could be resolved by simply not calling for a contest when they're not within audible distance.An exception to my use of audible distance as the limit for a Stealth/Perception contest is when a creature has the ability to hide under circumstances in which it could otherwise be seen, such as the woodelf, lightfoot halfling, 10th level ranger, or Skulker feat abilities. When those abilities are used to go unnoticed, they can be foiled by sight, and the range at which such a contest can occur increases to the sighting distance of the particular situation.To me, these don't seem like actions that can be resolved with a Stealth/Perception contest. Taking them one at a time, when Aragorn led the hobbits through the Midgewater, it wasn't a matter of being stealthy because the Ringwraiths weren't in fact there to notice them, but were instead patrolling the road. Without an observer present, one side of the contest is missing entirely.I'm also doubtful that a group effort to remain unnoticed was taking place on Weathertop in the film. I can't imagine how lighting a fire is trying to be stealthy.A good example from LotR of an effort that could be resolved with a group check is the crossing of the Dead Marshes without falling prey to the "candles of corpses". Frodo fails his check and becomes momentarily entranced, but Sam and Gollum, because they succeed, are able to break him out.I agree with this. No matter how stealthy Waldo is, it isn't going to make up for Bruno's clanking. They succeed or fail on their own.</blockquote>

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