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At 1st level, how powerful would you say PCs are in any edition of D&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 5489555" data-attributes="member: 30022"><p>I get the point (and it's a fair one - 4e PCs have more HP than previous versions), but an owlbear is probably not a good example. An owlbear is an elite 8th level brute in 4e. Using the Monster Vault stats for a bog-standard owlbear...</p><p></p><p>It uses <em>double attack</em> (at-will power) to hit twice, for 4d6+6 damage per blow. Your 2nd level fighter is grabbed. It then uses its Action Point to do a <em>beak snap</em>, <u>automatically hitting</u> for 4d8+22 damage. Your 2nd level fighter has now taken an <u>average </u>78 damage, and is killed outright in 1 round - even from maximum hit points, even with maximum Constitution and the Toughness feat.</p><p></p><p>Further, the standard owlbear fits (just) within the XP and level limit guidelines of a 2nd level encounter, so it's conceivable that a (sadist) DM might throw one at your 2nd level party. So, it's not a case of "well, you'd never encounter a 4e owlbear at 2nd level".</p><p></p><p>Given the damage above, it's actually <u>considerably more likely</u> that a 4e owlbear will kill your 4e fighter than a BECMI owlbear will kill your BECMI fighter. The BECMI owlbear will have a lower chance to hit, and there's less likelihood it will punch through all of your hit points in a single round.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, pedantic, I know... but our group has gone through over 100 dead PCs in 4e to date. Rumors that it is a "softer" system than 1e are wildly mistaken - for our group at least. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>[...and I voted "extraordinary" for the poll. Ordinary mortals don't even get to fight owlbears. They just get gobbled like so much popcorn...]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lancelot, post: 5489555, member: 30022"] I get the point (and it's a fair one - 4e PCs have more HP than previous versions), but an owlbear is probably not a good example. An owlbear is an elite 8th level brute in 4e. Using the Monster Vault stats for a bog-standard owlbear... It uses [I]double attack[/I] (at-will power) to hit twice, for 4d6+6 damage per blow. Your 2nd level fighter is grabbed. It then uses its Action Point to do a [I]beak snap[/I], [U]automatically hitting[/U] for 4d8+22 damage. Your 2nd level fighter has now taken an [U]average [/U]78 damage, and is killed outright in 1 round - even from maximum hit points, even with maximum Constitution and the Toughness feat. Further, the standard owlbear fits (just) within the XP and level limit guidelines of a 2nd level encounter, so it's conceivable that a (sadist) DM might throw one at your 2nd level party. So, it's not a case of "well, you'd never encounter a 4e owlbear at 2nd level". Given the damage above, it's actually [U]considerably more likely[/U] that a 4e owlbear will kill your 4e fighter than a BECMI owlbear will kill your BECMI fighter. The BECMI owlbear will have a lower chance to hit, and there's less likelihood it will punch through all of your hit points in a single round. Yeah, pedantic, I know... but our group has gone through over 100 dead PCs in 4e to date. Rumors that it is a "softer" system than 1e are wildly mistaken - for our group at least. :) [...and I voted "extraordinary" for the poll. Ordinary mortals don't even get to fight owlbears. They just get gobbled like so much popcorn...] [/QUOTE]
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At 1st level, how powerful would you say PCs are in any edition of D&D?
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