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<blockquote data-quote="Hawk Diesel" data-source="post: 7303830" data-attributes="member: 59848">I'm sorry, but I disagree with this. Especially since the Hexblade gets armor, shields, martial weapons, and an ability that not only replicates the Fiend Patron, but also increases crit threat range and increased damage. Why would anyone choose to use a Fiend Patron if Hexblade is available? There is often a saying that if a new option makes other obsolete, it is probably overpowered or otherwise unbalanced. Let's compare. Hexblade gets improved armor and weapon proficiencies and can use their spellcasting stat for melee attacks and damage. IN ADDITION, they get a once per short rest version of Super Hex that doesn't even require concentration. Are you honestly telling me this is ok in comparison with a Great Old One that gets telepathy or the Archfey that gets a single ability once per short rest?If we are trying to create balance so that all options are usable, then we do have to consider what the archetype is trying to accomplish, but also how well they do against each other. If Great Old one gets telepathy and Archfey gets a short rest charm/fright, these abilities need to stack up against the Hexblade. Either the Hexblade gets the armor and weapon proficiencies, or they get the short rest Super Hex (minus the ability that is directly stolen from the Fiend Patron), or they get Charisma to attacks and damage on melee attacks. Any one of those abilities could be argued to roughly stack against its Patron Peers. All of them combined just don't balance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hawk Diesel, post: 7303830, member: 59848"] I'm sorry, but I disagree with this. Especially since the Hexblade gets armor, shields, martial weapons, and an ability that not only replicates the Fiend Patron, but also increases crit threat range and increased damage. Why would anyone choose to use a Fiend Patron if Hexblade is available? There is often a saying that if a new option makes other obsolete, it is probably overpowered or otherwise unbalanced. Let's compare. Hexblade gets improved armor and weapon proficiencies and can use their spellcasting stat for melee attacks and damage. IN ADDITION, they get a once per short rest version of Super Hex that doesn't even require concentration. Are you honestly telling me this is ok in comparison with a Great Old One that gets telepathy or the Archfey that gets a single ability once per short rest? If we are trying to create balance so that all options are usable, then we do have to consider what the archetype is trying to accomplish, but also how well they do against each other. If Great Old one gets telepathy and Archfey gets a short rest charm/fright, these abilities need to stack up against the Hexblade. Either the Hexblade gets the armor and weapon proficiencies, or they get the short rest Super Hex (minus the ability that is directly stolen from the Fiend Patron), or they get Charisma to attacks and damage on melee attacks. Any one of those abilities could be argued to roughly stack against its Patron Peers. All of them combined just don't balance. [/QUOTE]

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