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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8590315" data-attributes="member: 16814">I disagree here.&nbsp; Having a plot point that will happen but that allows space to work around in play is not the same as a fixed ending.&nbsp;&nbsp; Presumably the players of a Glorantha game can continue through and past the fixed event with play.&nbsp;&nbsp; Certainly your 4e example allows for play to resolve the event in some way unknown prior to playing it.&nbsp;&nbsp; The station is a fixed point where play ends.&nbsp;&nbsp; It dictates exactly how and in what manner play ends.&nbsp; Force is applied to make it so.&nbsp;&nbsp; I do not believe that Edward's meant that Forcing outcomes is a valid mode of story now play and if he does,&nbsp; he's not coherent in his arguments. To address this and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s post above,&nbsp; how many scripted events are allowed?&nbsp; How much Force can be applied before we stop being able to call it Story Now and move to Story Before?&nbsp; I don't believe this is a specific with a pornography point* but rather different approaches to play. We've disagreed in thr past as to whether or not 5e can be adapted to Story Now and this argument feels like that one -- you point to toggles where it moves from some bit of Story Before to some bit of Story Now and say this is sufficiently Story Now in total.&nbsp; I disagree -&nbsp; toggling has it's own set of issues but it doesn't actually blend or stretch one to cover the other, it just toggles.*&quot;you know it when you see it&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8590315, member: 16814"] I disagree here. Having a plot point that will happen but that allows space to work around in play is not the same as a fixed ending. Presumably the players of a Glorantha game can continue through and past the fixed event with play. Certainly your 4e example allows for play to resolve the event in some way unknown prior to playing it. The station is a fixed point where play ends. It dictates exactly how and in what manner play ends. Force is applied to make it so. I do not believe that Edward's meant that Forcing outcomes is a valid mode of story now play and if he does, he's not coherent in his arguments. To address this and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s post above, how many scripted events are allowed? How much Force can be applied before we stop being able to call it Story Now and move to Story Before? I don't believe this is a specific with a pornography point* but rather different approaches to play. We've disagreed in thr past as to whether or not 5e can be adapted to Story Now and this argument feels like that one -- you point to toggles where it moves from some bit of Story Before to some bit of Story Now and say this is sufficiently Story Now in total. I disagree - toggling has it's own set of issues but it doesn't actually blend or stretch one to cover the other, it just toggles. *"you know it when you see it" [/QUOTE]

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