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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scud.NZ" data-source="post: 4379870" data-attributes="member: 73097">Thanks for the replies!James, Cheers for pointing out page 60. I think 10 squares is a little too close for the terrain I am thinking off [Dartmoor in SW England], more likely the 20 squares. I think you are right that 5 squares is probably just about right for a successful ambush range.I'm really not keen on Passive Perception. I get the mechanism, kind of, but it doesn't seem right somehow. Let me check my players character sheets. The highest Passive Perception is, rather predictably, the Rogue and Ranger's at 17. The wolves have a +3 Dex bonus, and at more than 10 sq. have a +2 bonus. This means that the six wolves each have to roll 13 in order to reach range 10 [12 is not good enough as the Rogue and Ranger have the higher bonus modifier].It's been a long time since I've bothered with any probability maths, but I'll try and work it out. Each wolf has a 40% chance of not being spotted. For all six wolves to avoid detection that's 0.4*0.4*0.4*0.4*0.4*0.4, which gives them a chance of 0.4% overall. Seems a little low, but then the party includes two people who have to be very aware of their surroundings.I suppose that I could give the wolves a +5 Stealth Bonus to represent their predatory nature (training of a sort, I mean why should goblins get a +10 Stealth bonus and wolves a meer +5). So, factoring in that bonus, their chance of sneaking up to range 10 becomes 11.5% (Quite an improvement!)A second roll would be needed to get closer than range 10, without the +2 bonus for distance = 4.5% chance success. So for six wolves to get to less than range 5 = 0.5% chance. But then, wolves are fairly intelligent creatures, so once they had reached range 10 they might only try to get one or two wolves any closer. That would raise the odds.KarinsDad: I agree, the Perception rules are very wonky. I like the idea that there is a chance that the players spot the wolves at a long distance. I guess it kind of depends upon what you, as DM, are trying to set up for the encounter. "You spot a line of six wolves on the crest of a hill a few hundred yards away [say 100-150 square in 4th edition terms]" or "Six pairs of glowing eyes appear at the of the campfires light. You hear a deep growling". In this case, I wanted the wolves to stalk the PC's. I figure that the 20+ sq. distances you've both mentioned would be a good place to put the wolves if they get caught.Thank you both  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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