At what level would you expect these items?

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm currently planning out a low-magic game, and am considering increasing ability score bonuses, to compensate for not giving out stat-boosting items. What I'd like to know is at what general level the stat items commonly occur, so I can cap the ability bonuses in a similar manner to prevent PCs from putting all their bonuses into a single stat and gaining an uberstat more quickly than standard.

So at what level would you expect to buy/find a +2 stat booster to your primary stat? +4? +6?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Sejs]

5/10/15, say. Round about there.

 

[Firzair]

I'd go with ability increases at every level, but no ability could be increased by more than half the character level (rounded up) from the base point.
E.g. a human fighter starts with STR 18, at level 10 he could have increased it to 23 and possibly put the other increases in say CON or DEX. So at level 20 he could have a STR 28. With normal rules he could have STR 29 (18 + 5 increases + +6 STR item) without inherent bonuses from tomes or wishes.

In the end the outcome would be a little behind a real 20th level char, because he could have a +6 item for every stat. Perhaps you'd like to give one increase every level, an additional increases every third or fourth level (i.e. two increases at these levels).

One more thing: don't having to spend money for these items leaves more money for other items, so you's have to reconsider the wealth distribution. But on the other hand, what other items will they be able to buy in a low magic world

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, I hadn't planned on being as generous as 1 point every level. In the last long-running campaign I played in, I had a +4 item and a +2 item by 13th-level. One point per level, even with your limiting system (which I like, btw) would mean +5, +3, and +2, or +5, +5...at level 10. On odd ability scores, that'd be far stronger than the core power level. Or at least it seems that way.

I had been playing with 1 point every 2 levels, instead of 4. That means by 10th-level they'd have 5 points to play with, and by 20th they'd have 10. A +6 item and a +4 item, or two +2 items. Considering all the other things they'd want to buy, that seems relatively sound. Though perhaps that's a bit low?

For the sake of the discussion, what other items the characters might buy or wealth levels in general are unimportant. I'll adjust all that after the fact. The core of my situation is that I'd like to use CRs as is, but give out few, if any, stat boosting items. So I need to work out a system to compensate for the lack of such items in my game.

 

[Fester]

Increased ability stats are way better than ability boosting magic items, when thinking of balance. Natural ability stats can't be dispelled or suppressed, they can't be stolen or lost and, in the case of a headband of intellect, count towards the skills (ie, they have more actual benefit). Also, they stack with everything else, while the bonus from magic items is an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with things like Bull's Strength (etc).

Of course, this also means that the slots they would otherwise have taken up are still open for other magical items!

So, just some things you should keep in mind.

 

[Thanee]

So at what level would you expect to buy/find a +2 stat booster to your primary stat? +4? +6?

4th / 8th / 12th

Bye
Thanee

 

[Silverglass]

I'd agree about 4/8/12. You can certainly create them at those levels.

Lord Pendragon - If you give a point every 2 levels rather than a point every 4 then the 10 points at 20th is only the equivalent of a single +5 item as they would get 5 points normally. A point every level after 1st would give 19 points by 20th level, the equivalent of 3 +6 items. This probably would be fair as although items can be negated points spends cannot be altered. Also there is the fact that in a low magic campaign the possibility of inherent bonuses is probably going to disappear as well. Also you must expect PCs to boost non-primary stats as they cant cover weak saves with stat items or save bonus items.

I think a better route would be starting slightly lower (say 25pt buy rather than 28) and adding 1 point per level gained. You won't overstat at low levels but you will have the high stats needed at high levels.

 

[glass]

I forget which thread, but someone recently suggested +1 to all 6 scores, at IIRC 5th, 10th and 15th. Don'y know how balanced it was, but it's certainly an interesting idea.

EDIT: I like the way it gets rid of those irritating 8s and 9s without having to use precious elective points.


glass.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... maybe just change +1 stat every 4 levels to +1 stat every 2 level for PCs only.

Weaker, but it's weaker for everyone, so that's just fair.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

I think the level at which you get those items is rather 5/10/15.

I don't remember exactly what's the supposed wealth per level (not in SRD), but at least I think for level 8th it was 27000gp, which is enough to buy a +4 item but it would cost 60% of your resources. That would be worth for a spellcaster, but less for the others.

In my experience, it is more common to get another item to boost a secondary score, but YMMV.

I think it would be more or less ok to give +1 every 3 levels. I would give even +1 every 2 levels if I was sure that players would use it to boost secondary scores, but that would rarely happen (unless they rolled the scores and want to get rid of odds)

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Why are you getting rid of the stat-enhancing items? Is it because you dislike the idea of an item becoming more important than the character? If that is the reason, I sympathise with it

One thing you may want to consider is to use more often magic Tomes and Manuals, which are more similar to permanently improve one ability. It would require some effort from you however because (1) their market price is totally off for your purpose and (2) the inherent bonus don't stack. You may want to just overrule the second.
If you are brave enough to go farther, you may rule that more than one character can benefit from the same book.