Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
At what point do players know they're fighting Minions?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5090401" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>You are basing your description not on the capabilities of the foe, but on your expectations as to the outcome of the encounter.</p><p></p><p>The creature doesn't have any weaknesses until it is hit. Then, an obvious weakness suddenly appears. You are basing your in game fluff descriptions with what will happen if the PC is successful with an attack. You are not basing your in game fluff descriptions with what will happen if the PC is unsuccessful with an attack. Until the PC is successful, the minion is invincible and could kill the PC.</p><p></p><p>How exactly was the PC exploiting gaps in the minion's defenses if the minion kicked his butt?</p><p></p><p>He wasn't.</p><p></p><p>You are rationalizing specific game mechanics with fluff, fluff that shouldn't exist because the PC should be unaware of the game mechanics.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And then problems start occurring when attempting to rationalize the difference between lower level creatures that are easier to hit with higher level minions that are harder to hit, but easier to kill if hit.</p><p></p><p>It becomes tougher to rationalize game mechanics descriptions at that point. Do you describe the minions as having weaknesses, or the lower level foes as having weaknesses?</p><p></p><p>"You think this foe has a great defense, but once you get past the defense, he's a paper tiger. On the other hand, this foe is easier to hit, but can stand up to a lot more punishment." WT??? How does this rationalization make sense?</p><p></p><p></p><p>The point is, the PCs shouldn't really have a clue. They should be pleasantly suprised when they single shot kill the monster "You fell for that old trick? What an idiot! That little Goblin is a tough bugger, but this big Hobgoblin walked right into my dagger.". The PC shouldn't know ahead of time that the Hobgoblin, for whatever reason, is going to die quickly.</p><p></p><p>Any foe could take a single arrow to the throat (assuming it has a throat) and keel over dead. Until the PCs are actually fighting the foe though and see whether it avoids the single arrow to the throat, they really shouldn't know.</p><p></p><p>The term minion is not a term the PCs know. It's a game mechanic term that players know. Like AC.</p><p></p><p>Do you tell the players that the foe with the low AC is easier to hit? Do you tell them the foe with the low Will is more susceptible to illusion magic?</p><p></p><p>If you don't describe these monster game mechanics to the PCs, why would you describe that the monster has 1 hit point?</p><p></p><p>It's game mechanics information that the PCs should not have until they actuallly learn it firsthand. Just like AC. The PCs find out how hard the Green Slime is to hit by attacking it, not by looking at it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How exactly do the PCs know that the foe's skill, luck, resolve, physical endurance, and ability to turn deadly strikes into a glancing blow are super low?</p><p></p><p>How do they know that the foe is unlucky??? Do you describe every minion as missing an eye or an ear or a finger? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5090401, member: 2011"] You are basing your description not on the capabilities of the foe, but on your expectations as to the outcome of the encounter. The creature doesn't have any weaknesses until it is hit. Then, an obvious weakness suddenly appears. You are basing your in game fluff descriptions with what will happen if the PC is successful with an attack. You are not basing your in game fluff descriptions with what will happen if the PC is unsuccessful with an attack. Until the PC is successful, the minion is invincible and could kill the PC. How exactly was the PC exploiting gaps in the minion's defenses if the minion kicked his butt? He wasn't. You are rationalizing specific game mechanics with fluff, fluff that shouldn't exist because the PC should be unaware of the game mechanics. And then problems start occurring when attempting to rationalize the difference between lower level creatures that are easier to hit with higher level minions that are harder to hit, but easier to kill if hit. It becomes tougher to rationalize game mechanics descriptions at that point. Do you describe the minions as having weaknesses, or the lower level foes as having weaknesses? "You think this foe has a great defense, but once you get past the defense, he's a paper tiger. On the other hand, this foe is easier to hit, but can stand up to a lot more punishment." WT??? How does this rationalization make sense? The point is, the PCs shouldn't really have a clue. They should be pleasantly suprised when they single shot kill the monster "You fell for that old trick? What an idiot! That little Goblin is a tough bugger, but this big Hobgoblin walked right into my dagger.". The PC shouldn't know ahead of time that the Hobgoblin, for whatever reason, is going to die quickly. Any foe could take a single arrow to the throat (assuming it has a throat) and keel over dead. Until the PCs are actually fighting the foe though and see whether it avoids the single arrow to the throat, they really shouldn't know. The term minion is not a term the PCs know. It's a game mechanic term that players know. Like AC. Do you tell the players that the foe with the low AC is easier to hit? Do you tell them the foe with the low Will is more susceptible to illusion magic? If you don't describe these monster game mechanics to the PCs, why would you describe that the monster has 1 hit point? It's game mechanics information that the PCs should not have until they actuallly learn it firsthand. Just like AC. The PCs find out how hard the Green Slime is to hit by attacking it, not by looking at it. How exactly do the PCs know that the foe's skill, luck, resolve, physical endurance, and ability to turn deadly strikes into a glancing blow are super low? How do they know that the foe is unlucky??? Do you describe every minion as missing an eye or an ear or a finger? :lol: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
At what point do players know they're fighting Minions?
Top