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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dr_Ruminahui" data-source="post: 5092461" data-attributes="member: 81104">I think part of the others point is that giving out info that points to "metagaming" information isn't necessarily metagaming  at all, but can in fact contribute to the realism of the scenario.For a real world example, I just finished reading a book ("Contact Charlie") about the Canadians fighting in the Kandahar province of Afganistan.  There, the Taliban were composed of a core of professional fighters and a bunch of young men straight out of the religious schools.  These young men had a tendency to fire their guns blindly and then run off, and the professionals largely used them as cannon fodder - sounds a lot like 4th ed's minions.The interesting thing for the purposes of this discussion is that when the Canadians were able to observe the Taliban on the move, they could tell which were the professionals and which were the "minions" by their behaviour - sounds a lot like a perception or knowledge monster check.To me, giving out such information seems no more "metagamey" than describing wisps of smoke coming from the dragon's mouth to suggest it has a flame breath.Personally, I've played 4th ed. in the "full conceal" mode (the DM even pretended to roll dice for minion damage) and I must say that, personally, it is not my cup of tea.  So, as DM I prefer to give clues to the players that a creature is a minion.Doing so also allows one to set up the situation where the clues are misleading - the very good example of the minion officer given above, or a minion that when killed releases a solo demon, for example.Now, I can understand how doing a full reveal may seem a bit metagamey (and to me 4th ed. already feels quite metagamey as it is) - and personally, I think its better if the information is available but not automatic.  That said, the full conceal method felt no less metagamey when I faced it as a player.For me, minons AREN'T exactly the same as normal monsters.  There is an in game reason why they go down with hit - they are either more fragile, or have less resolve, or whatever.  Whatever the reason is, there  typically are clues that point to their "fragility" - that minion skeleton may be horibly splintered and barely hanging together, that minion goblin is a townsfolk, or an unmotivated conscript.I guess my position is that combats are more meaningful if they mean something within the game - which includes having the monsters be the power level/type they are for a reason.  For me, giving clues as why things are the way they are helps immersion, not hinders it.  Those clues aren't necessarily automatic, and may even be misleading, but IMHO make for a more interesting and believable game.</blockquote>

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