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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 5300973" data-attributes="member: 158">However, at what mark are they really different systems? Is it the die mechanic they use for attacking -- namely, rolling a twenty-sided die and comparing to a target number that represents someone's defense? They both do that. Is it the concept of a saving throw, that being rolling a twenty-sided number and comparing to a static target number to determine success or failure of a magical effect or chance of misfortune? Actually, they both do that, too. Is it hit points? Weapons doing different die types for damage? Wizards casting spells that can only be used once each day? Strongly-defined character archetypes with class features?That's why I don't think "is it its own system" matters that much. Essentials 4E and the old Mentzer game do differ in lots of ways, but where do you draw the line of "on THIS side it's complete redesign and on THAT side it's a knock-off with minor changes"? 10% difference? 20% difference? 50%?Let's say you use the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work" target="_blank">"Derivative Work" standard -- there is no fixed percent, it just has to "contain sufficient new expression, over and above that embodied in the earlier work for the latter work to satisfy copyright law’s requirement of originality." I'd argue Paizo does that, from subtle changes to spells, to the reworking of both the skill list and the method of acquiring skill bonuses in a skill, to whole-cloth additions to classes a la the Sorcerer bloodline abilities, to whole new classes that did not exist before, such as the Alchemist, Inquisitor, and the Summoner. Oh, and I forgot to mention the rework of the grapple, trip, Combat Maneuver rules, too.</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work" target="_blank">Throw on hundreds of images worth of different artwork, and completely different trade dress, completely independent of the D&D trade dress, and I'd say that it qualifies -- IF it even mattered, which is my original supposition.</a></blockquote>

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